BSG, Random Meta

[lyssie]

Will contain spoilers through Eye of Jupiter.


Has Lee ever said he loved Dee?

Dee and her marriage.

Much like Sam, I think Dee went into her marriage knowing that Lee wasn't going to love her fully (although, in Sam's case, he had proof she might stray). That there would always be Starbuck, for him. But she also went in knowing that here was a chance at happiness. Here was a man she could love, who could love and respect her back.

As much as I think Lee married her as a sort of revenge against Kara, I also think a part of him did it because he does, truly, likes Dee. He respects her (or did), and he loves her.

It's also highly possible that Dee knew something was up, and Lee had had sex. (as with Kara, unless he took a shower...)

Tangent: I'm really sick of people saying Dee deserves this for cheating on Billy. Because, no. She doesn't. No one deserves this. That's like saying the Fleet deserves to be wiped out for turning the cylons into slaves. And if you think that, why the fuck are you watching this show? Seriously, nothing is this black and white. (not to mention you all sound like the people who think Sam Carter should get beaten/tortured/raped for daring to have sex with her boyfriend Pete, because she was cheating on Jack O'Neill. 'cause, you know, she and Jack? Were totally in a relationship.)

So, Dee married Lee because she thought their marriage could work. She thought there'd be enough to build upon. And, also, I think she loves him.

I also think, and I was talking this through with familyarchives, that Dee has Lee on a bit of a pedastal. In some ways, he's the man she thinks his father is. He's the man who orchestrated the president's escape, the man who is CAG, the man who is very moral, and upright. The kind of man she would have taken home to her family. And there's a little hero worship there, as well.

So. Dee married Lee for the stability, for him, for his resemblance to his father, for the fact that she loved him.

And their marriage seems to have been ok. Not spectacular, blow up in their faces, and make them fight like cats and dogs all the time... But there was mutual respect and liking and love. And (because I'm a romantic), good sex.

With time, with no Starbuck, and with no cylons, I think they would have settled. They might even have had children.

But they didn't get that. Instead, they had the cylons return and then Pegasus went boom and they were thrust back into life on Galactica. And... things were different. They saw less of each other, and what they saw... I suspect they slid back into old habits--sneaky kisses in closets and attempts to prolong morning contact with groping.

Starbuck. Before I go further, let me talk about Dee and Starbuck. Dee doesn't idolize Starbuck. In fact, I'm not sure Dee even likes Starbuck. Dee has, I think, decided that Starbuck is not the golden girl, and she's a frak-up. She sees her breaking the rules and getting away with it--and she hates that. But she also expects it, because Starbuck is Starbuck. In Captains' Hand, she says, "Starbuck in the brig already?" or something to that effect. She expects Kara to screw up and be stupid.

And, as season two closes, she also knows that Lee has an unhealthy obsession with her--the deleted scene in Lee's quarters on Pegasus illustrates this beautifully. Lee is trying to get her to stay for sex, but he's talking about Starbuck.

I also think Dee is a realist, btw. If not Lee, who the hell else is she going to marry? There aren't that many men that would fit her criteria--and Billy is dead. Even if Billy were alive, I'm not sure she'd settle down with him.

So. UF. Where Dee knows there's something going on, and hopes that maybe the boxing match will solve Lee's preoccupation.

Unfortunately, it doesn't. And now she knows he's doing something, but he won't admit it.

And I think that's the crux--Dee isn't going to let their marriage go. Not until Lee admits he's making it fail. Because in Dee's mind, she's done everything she's supposed to. It's Lee who's dicking around on her, and if he wants a divorce, he's going to have to damned well ask for it.

I also think that she looks on it as a momentary aberration. That Lee will come back to her, and their marriage will work again.

And, if Lee admits there's a problem, if he lets Kara go, I think Dee would forgive him. I think she wants their marriage to work, she wants their closeness and respect back. And it pisses her off that he isn't seeing that.

Hence, the sniping. Because Dee is not Starbuck. She's not going to impulsively run away from her husband. She's going to stick by him and support him and love him.

Dee is also angry with herself for not being able to keep Lee's interest, I suspect. If she were a little more like Starbuck... But then again, maybe she doesn't think that at all. Maybe she's angry with herself for letting him get away with it, for not putting her foot down and telling him to choose her or Kara.

Not to mention: who is Dee going to talk to about the fact that her husband is cheating on her? (Hell, who are any of them going to talk to for combat fatigue and general stress? Not to mention every person on the civvie ships has no one, either.)

Dee wants Lee to suffer, I think. She wants him to be the one to admit he frakked up. There's a victory in there, for her. Not to mention, if he admits HE is wrong, there's still a hope their marriage can be saved.

Whether it will happen...

And, yes, her wanting HIM to be the bad guy is petty. But Dee is human, and Lee's betrayal hurts.

Finally, Dee vs. Kara, Eye of J. death match:

Dee has her orders, and the only thing she's concerned with is getting those orders effectively to her people and completing her mission.

Kara wants to make it personal, wants to make it about them.

Yes, Dee IS treating Kara like a rookie. But Kara is acting like a rookie. Dee's only treating her exactly as she's acting, and she's doing it effectively. Plus, she's all hot and sweaty, and later on, dirty.


and


This one is short. I've seen it speculated that Kara's mother was the one who drilled religion into her, that's she's the one who would dissolve her marriage. I've also seen that Kara craves the attention of a father figure. Perhaps even emulates him. Right down to his attitude towards sex, maybe?

My thoughts are simple: Kara's dad slept around on his wife. He was mercurial, swift to anger, and probably incredibly passionate about the people he loved. Any child, with a mother like hers, who then had a father who loved her?

Might be easily swayed into thinking him sleeping around was ok. Would, possibly, even subconsciously emulate him in that respect.

This is all, however, speculation.

Comments

[lizardbeth-j.livejournal.com]

Dee and Kara thing -- it annoys me when people complain that Dee's ordering Kara around when Kara outranks her. Well, hello people, which part of "Major Adama's orders are...." did you not get? *rolls eyes*

I hope the REAL Dee v Kara verbal smackdown they've got set up for Rapture comes to fruition. Because that I'd love to see. "Starbuck, you want to go frak up your own life, fine. But you're frakking up mine, and Lee's and Sam's, who doesn't deserve the crap you're putting him through. Make a frakking decision, or I'm totally stealing your hot husband out from under you."

and about Kara's dad... I suspect he either died or left when she was young. But old enough to remember and idolize him, especially if her mother turned into a bitch afterward. And seeing as I'm still not convinced of the sleeping around crap, (not including Leoben-induced meltdowns) I won't even try to fanwank that part. man do I hope Ron got a lot of shit for that on the boards and will clip out any retcon of 'Ho!Kara in the rest of the season so we can all just pretend he never said anything.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

That, and, really, Kara's just a pilot. She's not a command officer--I'm betting there's something to do with it there, too. And, what. Would they rather have had Dee get all snippy with her and them start arguing a la some trashy romance novel?

Dee talking sense into Kara, I'm kinda iffy on. And it only works because Dee has been the Voice of Reason before. (I'm not fond of ANY character going, "Your life is frakked and this is why." -- er, unless it's a shrunk. And even then....)

I doubt Ron really cares what we think. He's producing High Art, donchaknow. And that JMS never let HIS fans change his mind! Neither did them Farscape peoples... (yeah, that's sarcasm. it's late and I'm on my fourth double-shot of tequila rose)

[lizardbeth-j.livejournal.com]

I don't think Kara would listen to it, but I would like to hear Dee bitch at her. Because I would bet that Dee blames her, a lot. And it's not like she'd just be telling Kara she's a frak up, but defending her own self and her own marriage. it would of course make fandom hate Dee even more, poor thing.

and no, you're right, Ron doesn't care what we think. *sigh* And it's not like I want total fanservice anyway (shudder), but just to prevent the stupid...

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Oh, the fallout should be.... Yes. Brilliant is the wrong word. But fandom is going to hate her more. Although, I think some of the anti-Kara brigade will be happy.

[aj.livejournal.com]

Well said on all counts, m'dear. *snuggles poor Dee who deserves a cookie*

I almost wish that she and Mom could hang out, but I think Mom is still slightly (or more than slightly) VIOLENTLY ANGRY at Dee for the stuff that went down in the Rising Star. I think if Mom sat down and thought it through logically she wouldn't be angry at Dee, but there's no one else in the situation she has the luxury of being angry at. She can't be mad at Dad because she has to work with him. Same goes for Lee. Dee? She can avoid, so she can hold an irrational grudge About Billy.

Which makes me a bit sad because Dee really does need someone to talk to. Sigh. OH, DEE.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

What's funny is that Dee is the last person I would have thought needed someone to talk to. But you're right. I wonder if she still talks to Sparky?

[aj.livejournal.com]

Aw, they can bitch about their Menfolk. SPARKY AND DEE SHOULD HANG OUT.

Maybe with Cally. Cally needs some non-deck crew friends.

Hey, do you have last night's conversation saved? AIM died on me, flamingly, and I lost it! *pout*

Billy: "I can braid hair."
Girls: *stare*
Billy: "Three sisters!"

[nyc-iby.livejournal.com]

Hhhmmm, very nicely put!

Whilst I don't think Dee would walk away from their marriage, I do sort of get the impression that she might challenge him about what's going on. She's a pragmatist, even in love. She loves him and she'll fight for her marriage, but she won't be treated like garbage at the same time. Know what I mean?

Argh, Dee bashing is annoying and unfortunately there seems to be a lot of it. I'm just thinking about the really cute picture from Rapture that's suposed to air SOON where Lee is hugging Dee like she's a breath of fresh air.

Interesting analysis!: Cheers!

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

I do know what you mean, and yes, exactly.

The Dee bashing annoys me so much. Rar.

[musing-mia.livejournal.com]

Dee definitely needs someone to talk to, but I wonder if she would. It might be shameful for her to admit that her husband prefers another woman to her. That she's allowed his cheating to proceed without saying a word to him. I think Dee believes that Lee will eventually realize the wrongness in his relationship with Starbuck, and will voluntarily end it. I personally think Lee is so fucked up that he won't do it unless he's faced with the pain he's inflicted on Dee. I think we'll get that in the next couple of eps. I think we'll get that talk between the Adamas that's needed to happen since Unfinished Business.

Personally, I would have bitchslapped Kara during that meeting, but Dee's a better woman than me. Kara likes to fight. She likes the chaos, and she doesn't like to be ignores. Dee didn't give her the satisfaction of making it all about her, and I applaud Dee for that.

So Dee is the anti-thesis of Kara. She's a rules girl. She's the good girl. She doesn't sleep around. She's faithful to her husband. She's everything that Kara isn't, and people think that makes her boring. But I'll take her over Kara any day of the week. I don't need someone in my life who flies off the handle. I need someone stable. Someone who thinks before she acts. And I also believe that's what Lee needs in this new world of theirs. He needs that stability as much as he needs the rush of being in that pilot seat. He just needs to remember that.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I hold out little hope--Ron likes his characters pointlessly screwy. Sigh.

Dee did exactly what any senior officer would have done in that situation. She ignored Kara's snark and shut her down.

Good, I'll take Kara, then. *runs off* ;)

(It is too early in my day for long-drawn-out rambly replies)

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, see, this is where I agree to disagree, 'cause my debating skills suck.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Nicola Bryant is the actress, Susan Taylor is the character, Touching Evil is the show (UK, of course). I think she was in Spooks/MI5, as well (and in an episode of Red Cap where she got chopped out in the American versions. sigh.)

[aj.livejournal.com]

ZOMG WHAT? SHE WAS IN RECCAP?!

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

She was in Fighting Fit, but I think all her scenes got cut.

[aj.livejournal.com]

CURSES!

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Gah. Nicola Walker, I mean. My brain? Not very awake two hours ago.

[samanthamarie88.livejournal.com]

More meta. Yeah!!

I don't get the Dee hate either. I like her. I just wish they'd quit cutting her scenes so we'd actually get to see her more. I can't wait to see how she handles her talks with Kara and Lee.

Dee is the Comms person, so it makes total sense to me that she'd be in charge of setting up the communications relay system on this mission to defend the Temple. She wasn't planning any attack strategy (which would be Kara and Lee's domain), just setting up communication posts. Once again, not understanding the complaints about Dee being in charge of that.

I can so totally see the whole Kara's dad thing too. Given that she obviously doesn't want to be like her mother, she tipped the other way and emulated her father instead. That could explain the excessive drinking, fighting, sleeping around -- traits that we would usually assign to a male, not a female.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

That could explain the excessive drinking, fighting, sleeping around

They're also traits associated with musicians--of EITHER sex. The man obviously had charm. He got Kara's mother, after all.

Gah. I don't have the brain to talk anymore. I may just rant incoherently, or something.

[samanthamarie88.livejournal.com]

After finding out who they cast as Kara's mom for Maelstrom, I'm just gonna say that she's not that much of a prize.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Well, they'd go for ugly, I'm sure. As we all know, ugly = mean/nasty/religious/evil.

[samanthamarie88.livejournal.com]

And she's a bit older too, which fits into one of my theories about Kara's destiny. For those who are interested, the actress is Dorothy Lyman.

Lee's mom is much hotter, and she's supposed to be nasty/evil too.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Dear Ron,

Your issues are showing. Please get some therapy.

No love, Lyssie

[pretty-fits.livejournal.com]

Dee still needs to rip off Lee's balls and wave them in front of Kara. "See this, no touch zone!"

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

And then she can give them back to Lee, and pat him on the head and tell him Cottle will fix it all. Yessss.

[samanthamarie88.livejournal.com]

Then Dee pulls a Lorena Bobbit, and throws Lee's balls out the airlock.

[pretty-fits.livejournal.com]

"If I can't have em', nobody can."

[thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com]

Meta! Meta that respects Dee! *adds to memories*

Mind if I friend you?

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I like Dee. *kicks at fandom*

Sure, er, just watch out for the batshit insanity my brain occasionally causes.