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Entry tags:
BSG, Random Meta
Will contain spoilers through Eye of Jupiter.
Has Lee ever said he loved Dee?
Dee and her marriage.
Much like Sam, I think Dee went into her marriage knowing that Lee wasn't going to love her fully (although, in Sam's case, he had proof she might stray). That there would always be Starbuck, for him. But she also went in knowing that here was a chance at happiness. Here was a man she could love, who could love and respect her back.
As much as I think Lee married her as a sort of revenge against Kara, I also think a part of him did it because he does, truly, likes Dee. He respects her (or did), and he loves her.
It's also highly possible that Dee knew something was up, and Lee had had sex. (as with Kara, unless he took a shower...)
Tangent: I'm really sick of people saying Dee deserves this for cheating on Billy. Because, no. She doesn't. No one deserves this. That's like saying the Fleet deserves to be wiped out for turning the cylons into slaves. And if you think that, why the fuck are you watching this show? Seriously, nothing is this black and white. (not to mention you all sound like the people who think Sam Carter should get beaten/tortured/raped for daring to have sex with her boyfriend Pete, because she was cheating on Jack O'Neill. 'cause, you know, she and Jack? Were totally in a relationship.)
So, Dee married Lee because she thought their marriage could work. She thought there'd be enough to build upon. And, also, I think she loves him.
I also think, and I was talking this through with![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
familyarchives, that Dee has Lee on a bit of a pedastal. In some ways, he's the man she thinks his father is. He's the man who orchestrated the president's escape, the man who is CAG, the man who is very moral, and upright. The kind of man she would have taken home to her family. And there's a little hero worship there, as well.
So. Dee married Lee for the stability, for him, for his resemblance to his father, for the fact that she loved him.
And their marriage seems to have been ok. Not spectacular, blow up in their faces, and make them fight like cats and dogs all the time... But there was mutual respect and liking and love. And (because I'm a romantic), good sex.
With time, with no Starbuck, and with no cylons, I think they would have settled. They might even have had children.
But they didn't get that. Instead, they had the cylons return and then Pegasus went boom and they were thrust back into life on Galactica. And... things were different. They saw less of each other, and what they saw... I suspect they slid back into old habits--sneaky kisses in closets and attempts to prolong morning contact with groping.
Starbuck. Before I go further, let me talk about Dee and Starbuck. Dee doesn't idolize Starbuck. In fact, I'm not sure Dee even likes Starbuck. Dee has, I think, decided that Starbuck is not the golden girl, and she's a frak-up. She sees her breaking the rules and getting away with it--and she hates that. But she also expects it, because Starbuck is Starbuck. In Captains' Hand, she says, "Starbuck in the brig already?" or something to that effect. She expects Kara to screw up and be stupid.
And, as season two closes, she also knows that Lee has an unhealthy obsession with her--the deleted scene in Lee's quarters on Pegasus illustrates this beautifully. Lee is trying to get her to stay for sex, but he's talking about Starbuck.
I also think Dee is a realist, btw. If not Lee, who the hell else is she going to marry? There aren't that many men that would fit her criteria--and Billy is dead. Even if Billy were alive, I'm not sure she'd settle down with him.
So. UF. Where Dee knows there's something going on, and hopes that maybe the boxing match will solve Lee's preoccupation.
Unfortunately, it doesn't. And now she knows he's doing something, but he won't admit it.
And I think that's the crux--Dee isn't going to let their marriage go. Not until Lee admits he's making it fail. Because in Dee's mind, she's done everything she's supposed to. It's Lee who's dicking around on her, and if he wants a divorce, he's going to have to damned well ask for it.
I also think that she looks on it as a momentary aberration. That Lee will come back to her, and their marriage will work again.
And, if Lee admits there's a problem, if he lets Kara go, I think Dee would forgive him. I think she wants their marriage to work, she wants their closeness and respect back. And it pisses her off that he isn't seeing that.
Hence, the sniping. Because Dee is not Starbuck. She's not going to impulsively run away from her husband. She's going to stick by him and support him and love him.
Dee is also angry with herself for not being able to keep Lee's interest, I suspect. If she were a little more like Starbuck... But then again, maybe she doesn't think that at all. Maybe she's angry with herself for letting him get away with it, for not putting her foot down and telling him to choose her or Kara.
Not to mention: who is Dee going to talk to about the fact that her husband is cheating on her? (Hell, who are any of them going to talk to for combat fatigue and general stress? Not to mention every person on the civvie ships has no one, either.)
Dee wants Lee to suffer, I think. She wants him to be the one to admit he frakked up. There's a victory in there, for her. Not to mention, if he admits HE is wrong, there's still a hope their marriage can be saved.
Whether it will happen...
And, yes, her wanting HIM to be the bad guy is petty. But Dee is human, and Lee's betrayal hurts.
Finally, Dee vs. Kara, Eye of J. death match:
Dee has her orders, and the only thing she's concerned with is getting those orders effectively to her people and completing her mission.
Kara wants to make it personal, wants to make it about them.
Yes, Dee IS treating Kara like a rookie. But Kara is acting like a rookie. Dee's only treating her exactly as she's acting, and she's doing it effectively.Plus, she's all hot and sweaty, and later on, dirty.
and
This one is short. I've seen it speculated that Kara's mother was the one who drilled religion into her, that's she's the one who would dissolve her marriage. I've also seen that Kara craves the attention of a father figure. Perhaps even emulates him. Right down to his attitude towards sex, maybe?
My thoughts are simple: Kara's dad slept around on his wife. He was mercurial, swift to anger, and probably incredibly passionate about the people he loved. Any child, with a mother like hers, who then had a father who loved her?
Might be easily swayed into thinking him sleeping around was ok. Would, possibly, even subconsciously emulate him in that respect.
This is all, however, speculation.
Has Lee ever said he loved Dee?
Dee and her marriage.
Much like Sam, I think Dee went into her marriage knowing that Lee wasn't going to love her fully (although, in Sam's case, he had proof she might stray). That there would always be Starbuck, for him. But she also went in knowing that here was a chance at happiness. Here was a man she could love, who could love and respect her back.
As much as I think Lee married her as a sort of revenge against Kara, I also think a part of him did it because he does, truly, likes Dee. He respects her (or did), and he loves her.
It's also highly possible that Dee knew something was up, and Lee had had sex. (as with Kara, unless he took a shower...)
Tangent: I'm really sick of people saying Dee deserves this for cheating on Billy. Because, no. She doesn't. No one deserves this. That's like saying the Fleet deserves to be wiped out for turning the cylons into slaves. And if you think that, why the fuck are you watching this show? Seriously, nothing is this black and white. (not to mention you all sound like the people who think Sam Carter should get beaten/tortured/raped for daring to have sex with her boyfriend Pete, because she was cheating on Jack O'Neill. 'cause, you know, she and Jack? Were totally in a relationship.)
So, Dee married Lee because she thought their marriage could work. She thought there'd be enough to build upon. And, also, I think she loves him.
I also think, and I was talking this through with
familyarchives, that Dee has Lee on a bit of a pedastal. In some ways, he's the man she thinks his father is. He's the man who orchestrated the president's escape, the man who is CAG, the man who is very moral, and upright. The kind of man she would have taken home to her family. And there's a little hero worship there, as well.So. Dee married Lee for the stability, for him, for his resemblance to his father, for the fact that she loved him.
And their marriage seems to have been ok. Not spectacular, blow up in their faces, and make them fight like cats and dogs all the time... But there was mutual respect and liking and love. And (because I'm a romantic), good sex.
With time, with no Starbuck, and with no cylons, I think they would have settled. They might even have had children.
But they didn't get that. Instead, they had the cylons return and then Pegasus went boom and they were thrust back into life on Galactica. And... things were different. They saw less of each other, and what they saw... I suspect they slid back into old habits--sneaky kisses in closets and attempts to prolong morning contact with groping.
Starbuck. Before I go further, let me talk about Dee and Starbuck. Dee doesn't idolize Starbuck. In fact, I'm not sure Dee even likes Starbuck. Dee has, I think, decided that Starbuck is not the golden girl, and she's a frak-up. She sees her breaking the rules and getting away with it--and she hates that. But she also expects it, because Starbuck is Starbuck. In Captains' Hand, she says, "Starbuck in the brig already?" or something to that effect. She expects Kara to screw up and be stupid.
And, as season two closes, she also knows that Lee has an unhealthy obsession with her--the deleted scene in Lee's quarters on Pegasus illustrates this beautifully. Lee is trying to get her to stay for sex, but he's talking about Starbuck.
I also think Dee is a realist, btw. If not Lee, who the hell else is she going to marry? There aren't that many men that would fit her criteria--and Billy is dead. Even if Billy were alive, I'm not sure she'd settle down with him.
So. UF. Where Dee knows there's something going on, and hopes that maybe the boxing match will solve Lee's preoccupation.
Unfortunately, it doesn't. And now she knows he's doing something, but he won't admit it.
And I think that's the crux--Dee isn't going to let their marriage go. Not until Lee admits he's making it fail. Because in Dee's mind, she's done everything she's supposed to. It's Lee who's dicking around on her, and if he wants a divorce, he's going to have to damned well ask for it.
I also think that she looks on it as a momentary aberration. That Lee will come back to her, and their marriage will work again.
And, if Lee admits there's a problem, if he lets Kara go, I think Dee would forgive him. I think she wants their marriage to work, she wants their closeness and respect back. And it pisses her off that he isn't seeing that.
Hence, the sniping. Because Dee is not Starbuck. She's not going to impulsively run away from her husband. She's going to stick by him and support him and love him.
Dee is also angry with herself for not being able to keep Lee's interest, I suspect. If she were a little more like Starbuck... But then again, maybe she doesn't think that at all. Maybe she's angry with herself for letting him get away with it, for not putting her foot down and telling him to choose her or Kara.
Not to mention: who is Dee going to talk to about the fact that her husband is cheating on her? (Hell, who are any of them going to talk to for combat fatigue and general stress? Not to mention every person on the civvie ships has no one, either.)
Dee wants Lee to suffer, I think. She wants him to be the one to admit he frakked up. There's a victory in there, for her. Not to mention, if he admits HE is wrong, there's still a hope their marriage can be saved.
Whether it will happen...
And, yes, her wanting HIM to be the bad guy is petty. But Dee is human, and Lee's betrayal hurts.
Finally, Dee vs. Kara, Eye of J. death match:
Dee has her orders, and the only thing she's concerned with is getting those orders effectively to her people and completing her mission.
Kara wants to make it personal, wants to make it about them.
Yes, Dee IS treating Kara like a rookie. But Kara is acting like a rookie. Dee's only treating her exactly as she's acting, and she's doing it effectively.
and
This one is short. I've seen it speculated that Kara's mother was the one who drilled religion into her, that's she's the one who would dissolve her marriage. I've also seen that Kara craves the attention of a father figure. Perhaps even emulates him. Right down to his attitude towards sex, maybe?
My thoughts are simple: Kara's dad slept around on his wife. He was mercurial, swift to anger, and probably incredibly passionate about the people he loved. Any child, with a mother like hers, who then had a father who loved her?
Might be easily swayed into thinking him sleeping around was ok. Would, possibly, even subconsciously emulate him in that respect.
This is all, however, speculation.
no subject
I hope the REAL Dee v Kara verbal smackdown they've got set up for Rapture comes to fruition. Because that I'd love to see. "Starbuck, you want to go frak up your own life, fine. But you're frakking up mine, and Lee's and Sam's, who doesn't deserve the crap you're putting him through. Make a frakking decision, or I'm totally stealing your hot husband out from under you."
and about Kara's dad... I suspect he either died or left when she was young. But old enough to remember and idolize him, especially if her mother turned into a bitch afterward. And seeing as I'm still not convinced of the sleeping around crap, (not including Leoben-induced meltdowns) I won't even try to fanwank that part. man do I hope Ron got a lot of shit for that on the boards and will clip out any retcon of 'Ho!Kara in the rest of the season so we can all just pretend he never said anything.
no subject
Dee talking sense into Kara, I'm kinda iffy on. And it only works because Dee has been the Voice of Reason before. (I'm not fond of ANY character going, "Your life is frakked and this is why." -- er, unless it's a shrunk. And even then....)
I doubt Ron really cares what we think. He's producing High Art, donchaknow. And that JMS never let HIS fans change his mind! Neither did them Farscape peoples... (yeah, that's sarcasm. it's late and I'm on my fourth double-shot of tequila rose)
no subject
and no, you're right, Ron doesn't care what we think. *sigh* And it's not like I want total fanservice anyway (shudder), but just to prevent the stupid...
no subject