okay, now I'm feeling stupid.

[lyssie]

But need to be enlightened.

Someone please explain to me why all m/f relationships are 'unequal'. I really,really don't get this statement.

Is it that the men always think the woman is a fragile flower?

Or is it that only one is on top all of the time, or what?

Because, I don't get it at all.

(and furthermore, don't get why f/f or m/m are 'equal' if m/f isn't.)

Comments

[redstarrobot.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't think it's entirely a myth. Yes, we do have gender roles and expectations, n all societies. Unable to be transcended? That's where you start getting into some iffy territory. They're perpetuating the idea that gender roles and expectations are an inescapable trap, unless you avoid the entire situation of having to deal with them.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I think... too many of the pairings I've read/written flipflop back and forth on the 'traditional' gender roles.

[redstarrobot.livejournal.com]

If anything, I think I tend to invert them - the men are sensitive and the women kill things with guns.

I suspect the real issue at the heart of saying same-sex is the only way to subvert roles is the issue of bad writers whose characterization is cliched, and can't be trusted with writing a heterosexual relationship and keeping both characters in character. Put Jack and Sam in the hands of a bad writer, and she'll be making his beakfast and cooing over his babies, while he goes off to save the SG team. Put Jack and Daniel in the hands of a bad writer, and odds are you won't have that problem, and they'll both stay roughly like they are, because the writer won't assume the same gender cliches for a same-sex couple.

[kkglinka.livejournal.com]

And I know I definitely live in a relationship that blows apart traditional gender roles, not just by flip-flopping but by mix'n'match in accordance to who does what best. I think our (and later) generations are doing a pretty swell job at that. While there may have been some element of egalitarianism in original m/m fics, it turning into another watered down reason.

Question, do we slam the writers for coming up with silly reasons or do we slam the questioner for demanding justification?

[redstarrobot.livejournal.com]

Both. There's no end to the slap-downs I can dish out for sloppy thinking. :)

Where the justification of writing slash matters (beyond it not being a crime to be interested in why other people like stuff!) is when the reason is not "because men are cool" or "because these characters just work" or "because same-sex couples are interesting", but when it's "because women suck!", which actually isn't that uncommon a reason, between the "female characters are awful/stupid/pointless" and "talking about women's genitalia or women having sex is disgusting" crowds. There is a surprising amount of misogyny in fandom, despite it being overhwelmingly female. Being able to discuss misogyny in a community is important, and realizing where the gaps in representation of minority groups in fic exist and why makes it easier to address those gaps - even just identifying a shortfall in fic about subject X and sending a few people off to write it for a few months can open up a valuable discussion and balance out fandom a bit.

[kkglinka.livejournal.com]

Sumo! *slapslapslapslapslap*

It's nice to hear this after my kertuffle over in another group, just recently. This is what I mean. There's a difference between validity and personal preference. I accept a statement of preference without question or judgement. On the other hand, I have a hard time not laughing at validation arguments.

IE: I write XYZ fic because it's better than ABC fic.

Nuh-uh. Pull the other one, you know? But then people see my reaction and assume it's because I'm one of those horrible intolerant people and then...

SUMO!

The end result is that I should go ahead and write that Catwoman fic where we find out that Batman (what with being macho and in charge all night long) is a dirty little sub in bed. Then I can explore power dyanamics, how some relationships work by always keeping power equal and others work by trading it back and forth. Both methods create a balanced dynamic, but they do it very differently.