vague early-morning thoughts.

[lyssie]

1. I've been having this issue when writing femslash recently: so much meta and such has passed my eyeballs I have the distinct worry that I'm fetishizing someone else's sexuality, and it's... making it difficult to finish things. (short things, like the Kara/Dee bit, don't require as much thought, but longer things? Oh yeah.)

A part of me wants to whine about this wrecking my ability to just produce femslash at the drop of a hat.

(ok, a large part of me; I hate second-guessing myself and not being able to write what I want to because I'm not a lesbian/haven't had the experience of coming out/don't know what it's like, and yes, I am whining right now. And frustrated.)

2. My feet are cold.

3. I am going to attempt to stay offline again, though I'm not taking Parker with me since lunch is only a half hour. The upside is that I'll be off an hour early.

4. Pants with no pockets suck.

5. Also? I'm really tired of writing het porn. Like. I think I've written so many orgasms that at this point I can repeat myself verbatim. Maybe it's time to start fading to black.

Comments

[havocthecat]

1. I'm actually considering some meta about femslash as a straight-or-bisexual woman. *ponders more* I might have to post about that. (For the record, I've never considered you as fetishizing anyone. Especially not like Certain People have.)

2. Extra pair of socks?

3. I forget what Parker is?

4. I hate pants with no pockets. Also, my ideal sweater is a cabled hoodie with pockets. I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to have to suck it up, buy the goddamn yarn, and knit it my own damn self.

5. BWAHAH! I know how you feel. There's only so much variety in porn that I can write. FTB wins sometimes. I'm one of those freaks that reads fic more for the story than the porn anyway.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

1. \o/ Yay. (I feel like ETA-ing and saying it's not that meta is a bad thing, it's just I'm whiny in the mornings) And I think my difficulty is that I think I do sort of go "X and X would be hot together!" and then porn them, which is... what I tend to accuse some of the wackier boyslashers of doing, and if that isn't the pot calling the kettle chartreuse, I don't know what is. Sigh.

2. I put on my boots, which helped.

3. Parker is my laptop. I don't think I've actually posted, mentioning that.

4. I just don't get the point of them! It's not like it takes much extra fabric.

5. Maybe it's that porn is... easier, in some ways, than plot (plot is definitely harder). Otoh, I do tend to do a lot of sort of thinky porn. And Kara/Sam lend themselves well to random "hey! sex!"

I think I might simply be tired of the climax part. I like the stuff leading up to it until it starts to get boring and then I'm all, "just get it over with!"

[scarfman]

4. Shirts with no pockets suck.

5. Heh. I've been thinking of bringing sex into my fanfiction cartoons (not graphically) because after all this time it's about the only subject I haven't treated.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

4. Most of my shirts have none. o.O

5. Hah! But, see, that would make it interesting for you.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

4. I have a backpack! I dislike the way messenger bags sit. And I destroy purses.

5. <3 I was totally not looking for an ego boost, but thank you. And I think I like what leads up to and the beginnings (foreplay) of the porn... but after a bit, that starts to pall and I just want it to hurry up already.

(if Chiana joins, can your icon be OT4?)

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

1) Oh, boy. I...will now commence worrying. :-) Seriously, though, I think there's something to be said for thinking about whether or not we're writing characters just for the pr0n or because they're...characters. At the same time, if we had to experience everything we wrote about before we wrote it, stories would get real old, real fast. Also, does that mean that someone who is gay can't write het? *squints sideways*

2) I used to think I didn't mind cold feet, but then I got old.

3) Good luck? And yay for getting off early.

4) They really do. Also, ditto for skirts.

5) I go through phases. Sometimes, it seems like sex is kinda boring to write. "They kissed. They touched each other. They penetrated (or not). They came. Whoo." :-) Other times, it's a lot of fun.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

1) And why don't I apply it to het fic, now I think on't? Sigh.

I think I've just hit a point where I've gone from "never thinking about it" to "thinking far too much and over-analyzing because it provides a convenient excuse not to face up to the fact that maybe I do sort of write femslash porn because it's hot" -- which, since I tend to malign boyslashers for the exact same thing, makes me more of a hypocrite than I like to cop to.

2. Fluffy socks may be my next answer.

5. BWAHAHAHAH. Yes, that. (though, sometimes, there's just mental images that spill out onto the page)

[greycoupon.livejournal.com]

4. YES THEY DO AND THIS IS WHY I DON'T WEAR DRESS PANTS.

5. There can never be too much porn.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

5. TOO MANY ORGASMS. Yes.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

1. Interesting. I've heard that argument w/r/t het women writing m/m slash (that it's kind of like the girl version of fratboys goading the sorority girls to make out), but not femslash. This is probably naive, but, wouldn't you be less likely to fetishize them since you're not attracted to them?

And, if you're writing femslash set in a world where sexuality is not an issue, would you really need the experience of coming out? I mean, even in our world, I doubt my gay friends explicitly grapple with their coming out experiences every time they hit the mattresses, so... IDK.

5. Well, I'm certainly not complaining. ;) But I'm also a big fan of the fade-to-black, myself, so it might be fun for you to mix things up.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

1. Well, that's the thing. I am attracted to women, I think. Which is where I'm sort of "er...." about it, I think (and as I said further up, I'm wondering if this makes me a bit of a hypocrite, since it's something I mock boyslashers about).

And, if you're writing femslash set in a world where sexuality is not an issue, would you really need the experience of coming out?

This is a good point, actually. And I don't know that I'd ever see the need to have someone come out, as it were. I just sometimes wonder a little if maybe I should be considering it (and in a universe like Stargate, or something else Earth-based, there'd be some sort of prejudice, somewhere, because it isn't all Gaytopia)

5. I think a major problem is that certain people will not stop talking and so I feel like I can't just cut away.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

Well, that's the thing. I am attracted to women, I think.

Well... then you're not fetishizing someone else's sexuality, you're exploring a part of your own. Right? (I'm probably not grasping the argument. Is this on metafandom? I'm curious as to why they're targeting femmeslash in particular; since most fan-writers are women, they at least have the experience of being female, so they're somewhat closer to the lesbian experience than to the gay male experience.)

Hmm. I think this is probably not an issue that's unique to femmeslash. I've seen boy-slashers condemning all het as Mary-Sue fantasy* as opposed to the TRUE and PURE boyslash, and then there are the people saying all kinds of slash are wrong, so, I guess that leaves gen? Hey, I like gen. ;)

*because no one would every write about female characters because they enjoy them. Nitwits. :P

k (and as I said further up, I'm wondering if this makes me a bit of a hypocrite, since it's something I mock boyslashers about).

Well, I haven't so much noticed you mocking boyslashers as such for writing pairing because they're hot, so much as for getting all righteous about their mission and/or bashing any female character who "gets in the way" of the slash-pairing, which is different. I mean, would you take issue with someone who said "I'm writing Sam/Lee because Oh So Pretty" vs. "Sam/Lee is CANON, OMG." (Heh.)

Speaking of being insecure, I've had moments where I worried that my utter lack of interest in boyslash was due to some latent homophobia on my part. Ack! I mean, everyone in the wider fandom world takes it for granted that it's something all women are ga-ga for and I just ... need a girl to keep me interested. So, you can second guess yourself no matter what. (Yaay?)

5. HEE. I agree with palmetto; most of the time when I read fic, I unconsciously skim over the porn-y parts because it's just not that interesting. You're one of the few writers I never do that with, because you always convey what's going on with the characters and their emotions and it's great. <3

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Hah. Actually, and this is going to make less sense, but it IS Lyssie Logic: the femslash meta was months back, but the recent discussions of race and appropriation have sort of stuck in the back of my head and I finally realized this morning why I've been struggling.

Subconsciously, I think I've been doubting myself in some ways (coupled with the fact that I rarely bother with a beta, and never have the guts to go for some really critical critiques or whatever--because I like it, and that's always been good enough for me), I just hadn't realized why. I just knew I was getting frustrated, when writing femslash--especially when it wasn't just porn.

Well. Most of that mocking never makes it out onto lj (I do some of it in person, or at least aloud). Especially since my main annoyance is the detriment to female characters.

Sam/Lee.... could be canon. Yeah. I might have issues with the latter, even though I'm thinking about doing a fic where Kara/Dee was actually the Angsty OTP and reason Kara 'cheated'. Or something like that. (er, it's not what I'm working on)

And you are not alone in finding boyslash sort of, um, meh-causing. I can objectively go "yay, hot!" but...

5. That is because they won't be quiet. I end up with so much dialog in sex scenes. Sigh.

[nique.livejournal.com]

1) Well, someone's always going to complain, but honestly. I think unless all you're doing is going "Woohooo! Isn't being a lesbian GRAND?!?" it's fine. A lot of the reason people get shit for writing, say, boyslash isn't the actual smut part (because as bad as that can be, het romance novels aren't any better) it's the manipulation of the characters' personalities in, or the total lack of justification for their sudden sexuality change. And, in my mode of thought, if you're just writing PWP, the justification doesn't necessarily need to be there because there's usually not enough actual story to support it. If you're writing some big long thing about how Dee and Kara are destined for each other, and want to buy a house and raise telepathic beagles, you need to explain why they're doing each other and not Lee and/or Sam, you know?

/ramble

[timjr.livejournal.com]

...I want a telepathic beagle, now.

[kkglinka.livejournal.com]

1. I always remind myself of Aesop's fable about the Man, the Boy and the Ass.

2. I hate cold feet. Sometimes I use chemical heat packets.

3. Good luck.

4. Yes. But remember, women don't need pockets because we carry purses. Or something like that.

5. Trying to write porn is boring. Sex is stupid looking, stupid sounding and altogether ridiculous and repetitive. My beta had to cough discreetly and remind me to add foreplay last time I had to write sexin' bits. *sighs* FTB all the way, if you ask me.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

1. *looks up* Oh. Good point, that.

2. I have contemplated those.

4. I have a backpack. I don't think that counts.

5. They're always talking when I write sex. And they don't stop talking (usually). But it does get boring after a while. I am sort of working towards fading to black, I think. Because if I have to write one more orgasm, I might just kick something.

[kkglinka.livejournal.com]

1. Mm. I'm sort of bemused by the massive race fail thing because a lot of folks seem to think they've discovered some new modern issue and, uh.... *points at the fable* It's not that you shouldn't check yourself on a regular basis, but don't drop your donkey or it's all a moot point.

5. That's because you're still characterizing them and otherwise advancing the relationship or plot. I prefer those type of sex scenes because then they're neither superfluous nor boring. Orgasms are much easier.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

1. In large part, I'm doing it because, yeah, I love women and the characters and making them happy. I'm also doing so because it's hot.

and, well, because there isn't enough femslash out there, and I feel like redressing the balance.

So most of my reasons are selfish.

And this sudden uncertainty should apply to all sections of fiction, and I think it might. I think it's easier for me to lazily handwave other things.

*stops talking since there is no more sense in her brains*

[kkglinka.livejournal.com]

So most of my reasons are selfish.

Er, I can't speak for everyone else because I'm not a telepath, but I almost invariably write fic because I'm not getting what I want. My fics are absolutely selfish, and sometimes I'm even giving the local fandom the finger, to boot.

[timjr.livejournal.com]

1. Man, I... so hear you on that. I always feel like I have to tread extra carefully, and... this may be why I almost completely gave up writing fic.

...and yet, I'll still use this icon.

2. Socks are good.

4. So do shirts without pockets. They frustrate me.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

1. Well, if it helps, I totally write girls having sex because I'd like to be a part of it. I suppose it's weird, though, you being a guy? Eh. I don't know. It's one of those wierd, hard to fathom things.

[timjr.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's my thing. I worry about it, cause I don't want to cross into that 'doing it just for my male fantasies' sort of thing, cause I really, really don't ever want to come across as that.

...you know, even when I was doing PWP. Which is, like, impossible to defend on that point, really.

And seriously, I don't think 'fetishization' becomes a problem unless you're neglecting the characters themselves. I mean, if you're writing about characters and not, errrr, random named vaginas, I think there's a matter of care and difference?

[prozacpark.livejournal.com]

1). I...don't think it's wrong in itself, but rather how it's done. And I would attempt to expand on that, but I'm sort of not very articulate right now.

2). I WISH MY FEET WERE COLD!

5). Fading to black can work, but it really depends on the story? And, you know, I'm the sort of person who often skips over the porn to get to the plot (yeah, I'm dull like that.) And as such? I still read all your smutty bits because I never feel like they're just porn, and they do have character bits in them? IDK, it's hard to put in words. But...I don't feel like it's all generic.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

1. It is ok. I have talked myself out and moved on, for the moment.

2. NO, YOU DON'T.

5. HAH. That is because they never stop talking! Or thinking or feeling or doing things that have me flailing and wishing they'd stop!

[tnhand1022.livejournal.com]

1. Hmmm... I feel like this is only a snippet of a much larger issue. I'm thinking lots of thoughts. I'll PM you.

[zahdahe.livejournal.com]

sORRY i'M LATE bring on the porn slashy is about due now! Isn't it?