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Meta: BSG, Kara/Anders, and Ron's new ideas about Starbuck.
Contains spoilers through Eye of Jupiter.
In an effort to aim this at the right audience, I'm going to note up front that if you're a Kara/Lee shipper? This is not the meta for you. In fact, you want meta by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
wisteria_, marenfic, bijoux, leda13, and half a dozen others.
See icon? Yes. That would be me. This is not going to be particularly unbiased, though I'll try. Most of this is me, rambling, with random thoughts that ended up getting dropped in here and there (I think I went in a circle at one point--and some of this made it into Chemistry of a Car Crash).
When Ron Moore sets out to destroy a character, he really goes all out, doesn't he? I'll admit, part of my dislike for where he's going with the characters is that I loathe Kara's Angsty Childhood. Honestly, if I want to see the Victim/Abused Child/etc. thing, I'll read a Mercedes Lackey book. Or, hell, if I really want to get mired, I'll re-read Gael Baudino's Shroud of Shadow--damn book doesn't even have a fucking payoff for all the shit in it.
I tend to find things like 'destiny' a cop-out to real character development. Oh! Kara doesn't have to be a real person or change, she has a Destiny! Yay. Yeah. Not.
*dies* My playlist is... special.Breaking Benjamin's Sugarcult's Three Days Grace' "I Hate Everything About You" is a Kara/Anders song. And is playing, as I type this.
So. Ron says Kara Thrace took over Ellen's job as the Whore of New Caprica after she married Sam. That Sam knows about it. (at least, that's what's been told to me. I don't think I'm allowed to ever listen to Ron. Ever.)
Great, Ron. That's. Great.
I know that part of my disgust (ok, most of it) is one thing: marriage. I'm beginning to wonder if Ron has an aversion to it, because this has actually PASSED Red Cap series 2's need to continually say "Marriage sucks, no one lasts, everyone cheats." Which is pretty damned impressive (Angie and Brucie don't count, they hadn't got married yet, and I'm sure series three would have split them up... *dodges thrown things from A.j.*)
If Kara hadn't married Sam, I'd have no problems with it. Hell, I'd be all for it. I've wanted Kara to be the Starbuck that has a girl on every planet since the beginning.
But Kara did marry Sam, and thus, I have an instinctive loathing of infidelity.
Putting all of that aside...
I still stand by what I said, previously. I think Kara and Sam were happy on NC. I think she needs him, cares for him, whatever (if I start talking Love, I get irritated).
Sam. I think Sam went into their marriage with both eyes open--Kara asked him to marry him, smelling of stale sex and dirt and sweat (unless she took a shower, but Starbuck's hygiene has never been all that brilliant). He knew she'd been with another man, and he decided that having her as his wife would be enough (interesting. I want to ask if he saw Kara as a status symbol, but I don't think Sam's that shallow). I think Sam loves her, I think he's sometimes a little frightened by how much he needs her. I think he sometimes wishes she'd never come to Caprica.
It was far easier to fight the cylons and not care.
Kara's behavior is, apparently, consistent with someone who was abused as a child (I seem to recall reading it in meta, somewhere). She's constantly looking for confirmation that she's lovable because she doesn't love herself. And let be sarcastic, here. Thanks to Ron, apparently, women can't like sex because they like sex. They have to be damaged as a child and attention-seeking. Not only that, you can't be a brash bitch without having been beaten as a small child. If you're a woman.
I find it fascinating that we've never had Sam or Kara say they love each other. Kara's said love to Lee and Leoben (both under forced circumstances), and Lee said it several times. Did Leoben say it? (I don't think he did. hrm).
Kara and Sam's love seems to all be in actions, in little things (or big). She moved heaven and earth to go back to Caprica for him. He ran the New Caprica resistance to get her back (ok, so it was also to get rid of the cylons). Sam finding her in the cell, Kara's manic grin when he confirms it's really him... Her worry about him being sick, his worry about her, and need for their marriage. And, of course, his anger at her for not talking to him. All of that makes their relationship very real, to me.
As for Kara's behavior... And Sam's acceptance of it.
Sam is not going to make her change--he figures that's something she has to do on her own. So he's just going to be there for her. And if she never changes, maybe someday, he'll give up.
Lee would try to make her change and it would... make it worse. In fact, let me state for the record: Lee and his magickal healing cock are not going to keep Kara on the straight and narrow.
Now I'm wondering if Kara slept around on Zak. Did she sleep with Lee?
Anyway. There's a theory I've seen (I'm fairly certain it was Wisteria who postulated it--yes, I read Kara/Lee meta, and yes, I will borrow it for my own use), that Kara does stupid shit to make the person she's with prove their love to her. The theory went something like: Kara shoves Lee away by marrying Sam, and if he comes back, he loves her, etc... Well, how much worse is it that she's sleeping around on Sam and yet he won't let her go? He keeps coming back to her, like a yo-yo.
Or she keeps coming back to him.
It makes me want to throw things at Ron Moore, but at least now my OTP is the most fucked up on the show? The Tighs notwithstanding, of course.
And then there's the tattoos. I still want to know if it was Sam or Kara that proposed them. I'm wondering if Kara did, if, in some way, it was her silent promise to Sam to always come back to him.
The reason I say that is, well, the body language. In the bit where Kara steps between the two of them, it's not Lee she's trying to calm. It's Sam. Sam who she makes a physical connection with, Sam who she bares her neck to, Sam who she basically says (in body and eyes), "He doesn't mean anything, honey. Calm down." to.
In a way, Sam married Kara because it was the only promise she could give him. Instead of "I'll come back for you." it's "I'll come back to you." She might stray, but he's always the one constant in her life. The one man she'll come back to, over and over again.
Anyway. Leaving all of that Kara the Abuse Victim crap aside, I can explain it without making her childhood an issue.
Kara likes sex. Kara's an adrenaline junkie. Sex with men (or women) not her husband is forbidden, and there's the chance of getting caught. Plus, it means he's cranky and they fight, which is kind of hot (at least, I assume they fight) and might make for even more hot sex when they make up (not to mention, well, angry sex can also be damned hot).
As for Sam's anger in EoJ, I think he's pissed at Kara because she won't talk to him. And he's pissed at Lee, because Lee doesn't get the rules. Lee can play all he wants, but in the end, he doesn't get to keep Kara. I also wonder if he's pissed on Dee's behalf--and maybe Kara used to limit her attentions to guys who weren't married?
I'd like to know what Sam is supposed to do to keep her from straying, btw. Tie her to their bed? Get pissed and leave? He doesn't want to leave, he wants Kara. And if this is all he can get, he'll take it.
Lee was right, in Scar. Kara does have problems with the live ones. The dead don't expect her to be perfect, or fit a certain mold.
*snicker* Lee is one of those virginal Regency Romance Heroines who believes her rake of a husband will settle down once she marries him. Or, in Lee's case, marries her.
Interesting, I keep trying to avoid 'own' and 'claim', when talking about Kara/Anders. Is it because I hated it so much when people talked about it in Sam/Jack? Because, in some ways, ifgrav_ity's comments about ownership being denoted with tattoos in Roman/Greek times apply to BSG, then Sam does own Kara. And she owns him right back--the tattoos go both ways, after all (unless BSGverse really isn't as equal as Ron keeps trying to make it).
Kara may also think she doesn't deserve a good marriage--not after Zak. So she sleeps around because it keeps Sam at bay, because it keeps them from being perfect.
And right now? Not only is that part of it, she's also sleeping around because of Leoben. She admitted to a machine that she loved him. She thought she had a chance at a perfect family with Kacey (did Sam feature, I don't know). A chance to erase the past.
That chance is gone.
You know the other reason I hate this entire mess? It's a Debbie Gibson album. Seriously. Listen to half the tracks off Electric Youth, and you'll find yourself disturbed at how teeniebopper the whole thing is.
In an effort to aim this at the right audience, I'm going to note up front that if you're a Kara/Lee shipper? This is not the meta for you. In fact, you want meta by
wisteria_, marenfic, bijoux, leda13, and half a dozen others. See icon? Yes. That would be me. This is not going to be particularly unbiased, though I'll try. Most of this is me, rambling, with random thoughts that ended up getting dropped in here and there (I think I went in a circle at one point--and some of this made it into Chemistry of a Car Crash).
When Ron Moore sets out to destroy a character, he really goes all out, doesn't he? I'll admit, part of my dislike for where he's going with the characters is that I loathe Kara's Angsty Childhood. Honestly, if I want to see the Victim/Abused Child/etc. thing, I'll read a Mercedes Lackey book. Or, hell, if I really want to get mired, I'll re-read Gael Baudino's Shroud of Shadow--damn book doesn't even have a fucking payoff for all the shit in it.
I tend to find things like 'destiny' a cop-out to real character development. Oh! Kara doesn't have to be a real person or change, she has a Destiny! Yay. Yeah. Not.
*dies* My playlist is... special.
So. Ron says Kara Thrace took over Ellen's job as the Whore of New Caprica after she married Sam. That Sam knows about it. (at least, that's what's been told to me. I don't think I'm allowed to ever listen to Ron. Ever.)
Great, Ron. That's. Great.
I know that part of my disgust (ok, most of it) is one thing: marriage. I'm beginning to wonder if Ron has an aversion to it, because this has actually PASSED Red Cap series 2's need to continually say "Marriage sucks, no one lasts, everyone cheats." Which is pretty damned impressive (Angie and Brucie don't count, they hadn't got married yet, and I'm sure series three would have split them up... *dodges thrown things from A.j.*)
If Kara hadn't married Sam, I'd have no problems with it. Hell, I'd be all for it. I've wanted Kara to be the Starbuck that has a girl on every planet since the beginning.
But Kara did marry Sam, and thus, I have an instinctive loathing of infidelity.
Putting all of that aside...
I still stand by what I said, previously. I think Kara and Sam were happy on NC. I think she needs him, cares for him, whatever (if I start talking Love, I get irritated).
Sam. I think Sam went into their marriage with both eyes open--Kara asked him to marry him, smelling of stale sex and dirt and sweat (unless she took a shower, but Starbuck's hygiene has never been all that brilliant). He knew she'd been with another man, and he decided that having her as his wife would be enough (interesting. I want to ask if he saw Kara as a status symbol, but I don't think Sam's that shallow). I think Sam loves her, I think he's sometimes a little frightened by how much he needs her. I think he sometimes wishes she'd never come to Caprica.
It was far easier to fight the cylons and not care.
Kara's behavior is, apparently, consistent with someone who was abused as a child (I seem to recall reading it in meta, somewhere). She's constantly looking for confirmation that she's lovable because she doesn't love herself. And let be sarcastic, here. Thanks to Ron, apparently, women can't like sex because they like sex. They have to be damaged as a child and attention-seeking. Not only that, you can't be a brash bitch without having been beaten as a small child. If you're a woman.
I find it fascinating that we've never had Sam or Kara say they love each other. Kara's said love to Lee and Leoben (both under forced circumstances), and Lee said it several times. Did Leoben say it? (I don't think he did. hrm).
Kara and Sam's love seems to all be in actions, in little things (or big). She moved heaven and earth to go back to Caprica for him. He ran the New Caprica resistance to get her back (ok, so it was also to get rid of the cylons). Sam finding her in the cell, Kara's manic grin when he confirms it's really him... Her worry about him being sick, his worry about her, and need for their marriage. And, of course, his anger at her for not talking to him. All of that makes their relationship very real, to me.
As for Kara's behavior... And Sam's acceptance of it.
Sam is not going to make her change--he figures that's something she has to do on her own. So he's just going to be there for her. And if she never changes, maybe someday, he'll give up.
Lee would try to make her change and it would... make it worse. In fact, let me state for the record: Lee and his magickal healing cock are not going to keep Kara on the straight and narrow.
Now I'm wondering if Kara slept around on Zak. Did she sleep with Lee?
Anyway. There's a theory I've seen (I'm fairly certain it was Wisteria who postulated it--yes, I read Kara/Lee meta, and yes, I will borrow it for my own use), that Kara does stupid shit to make the person she's with prove their love to her. The theory went something like: Kara shoves Lee away by marrying Sam, and if he comes back, he loves her, etc... Well, how much worse is it that she's sleeping around on Sam and yet he won't let her go? He keeps coming back to her, like a yo-yo.
Or she keeps coming back to him.
It makes me want to throw things at Ron Moore, but at least now my OTP is the most fucked up on the show? The Tighs notwithstanding, of course.
And then there's the tattoos. I still want to know if it was Sam or Kara that proposed them. I'm wondering if Kara did, if, in some way, it was her silent promise to Sam to always come back to him.
The reason I say that is, well, the body language. In the bit where Kara steps between the two of them, it's not Lee she's trying to calm. It's Sam. Sam who she makes a physical connection with, Sam who she bares her neck to, Sam who she basically says (in body and eyes), "He doesn't mean anything, honey. Calm down." to.
In a way, Sam married Kara because it was the only promise she could give him. Instead of "I'll come back for you." it's "I'll come back to you." She might stray, but he's always the one constant in her life. The one man she'll come back to, over and over again.
Anyway. Leaving all of that Kara the Abuse Victim crap aside, I can explain it without making her childhood an issue.
Kara likes sex. Kara's an adrenaline junkie. Sex with men (or women) not her husband is forbidden, and there's the chance of getting caught. Plus, it means he's cranky and they fight, which is kind of hot (at least, I assume they fight) and might make for even more hot sex when they make up (not to mention, well, angry sex can also be damned hot).
As for Sam's anger in EoJ, I think he's pissed at Kara because she won't talk to him. And he's pissed at Lee, because Lee doesn't get the rules. Lee can play all he wants, but in the end, he doesn't get to keep Kara. I also wonder if he's pissed on Dee's behalf--and maybe Kara used to limit her attentions to guys who weren't married?
I'd like to know what Sam is supposed to do to keep her from straying, btw. Tie her to their bed? Get pissed and leave? He doesn't want to leave, he wants Kara. And if this is all he can get, he'll take it.
Lee was right, in Scar. Kara does have problems with the live ones. The dead don't expect her to be perfect, or fit a certain mold.
*snicker* Lee is one of those virginal Regency Romance Heroines who believes her rake of a husband will settle down once she marries him. Or, in Lee's case, marries her.
Interesting, I keep trying to avoid 'own' and 'claim', when talking about Kara/Anders. Is it because I hated it so much when people talked about it in Sam/Jack? Because, in some ways, if
grav_ity's comments about ownership being denoted with tattoos in Roman/Greek times apply to BSG, then Sam does own Kara. And she owns him right back--the tattoos go both ways, after all (unless BSGverse really isn't as equal as Ron keeps trying to make it).Kara may also think she doesn't deserve a good marriage--not after Zak. So she sleeps around because it keeps Sam at bay, because it keeps them from being perfect.
And right now? Not only is that part of it, she's also sleeping around because of Leoben. She admitted to a machine that she loved him. She thought she had a chance at a perfect family with Kacey (did Sam feature, I don't know). A chance to erase the past.
That chance is gone.
You know the other reason I hate this entire mess? It's a Debbie Gibson album. Seriously. Listen to half the tracks off Electric Youth, and you'll find yourself disturbed at how teeniebopper the whole thing is.
Re: Yes me again...
Re: Yes me again...
Re: Yes me again...