lyssie | SW3

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SW3

Spoilers.

First, though. OMG. Everyone needs to go see the Mr. and Mrs. Smith movie. It's DOMINO and WADE. But Wade's pretty.

OMG! WAYNE PYGRAM! I squealed like a fangirl. He's on the star destroyer at the end, standing there with the emporer and Vader.

The lack of women in this film? AM I LIVING IN THE 50's???? Seriously, people, the single speaking role a woman had was only to look pretty and say, "I love you, Ani. I'm pregnant with your babies, Ani. Our Love Will Survive, Ani." There is not a single moment where she wasn't All About Anakin. And that's fucking pathetic.

Padme and Anakin - every scene was written by Gail Delaney. Although, according to my roommates, it's always been this bad when it comes to their dialogue. Wow. Mr. Lucas! Stop writing shitty movies and start writing romance novels! Just remember to put one or two other women on your cast.

Furthermore, to all men who might be contemplating having children: Never tell your girlfriend/SO/wife: You being pregnant is the best thing to ever happen to me.

Ever.

Because, really, this means that Padme could've been a hooker from 42nd street.

The plot? We already know how it ends. Titanic has better dialogue.

There was lots of shiny, fights and explosions, and deaths, and three-fourths of it looked like a giant video game, sadly.

All in all, at least decent.

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YEah, the lack of women made this movie my BIG GAY MOVIE and I love it. And feel kinda dirty about that.

*points and squees at slashy icon*

I kept leaning over and going "Oooo, slashy!" to

shadowriter all through the movie. And I feel no shame whatsoever about that.

::bounces with gleee::

....so.... You hated Sin City, which had women kicking asses and taking names. But you loved Star Wars, which had one woman being a sperm bank and nothing more.

...

*laura mulveys u*

Ooooh no no no no no NO. It can easily boil down to a clothing issue that I had with the women of Sin City. Dressing fetishistically (not that Padme doesn't but her clothes signify something else) to please the eye of a male audience and a male dominated world (even if you like the clothes and feel empowered by them) is infuriating to me because you're dressing like that for purely sexual reasons -- mainly to please/distract the male. From a pure audience standpoint, it's to please the male audience and make the women in the audience feel self conscious or jealous.

And just because you kick ass and take names doesn't mean I'm gonna connect with your character. While I admire the women prostitutes owning their own district and living their rules -- ... in the end the film is just not a satisfying experience for me because I feel, as a woman living alone in a big city, victimized along with the victimzied women in the movie and thoroughly unconnected to the women who aren't because my way of countering patriachal culture is a whole lot more boring than their way.

Star Wars is also an entirely different kettle of fish because it's baby's first fandom, I'm forced to love it (yes, like an abused wife) no matter what because I both choose to and have loved SW since I was wee. So even if it gives me no strong female characters, I'll LIVE because I like the male characters. It's like Spider-Man --- I love those movies but I HATE Mary Jane... A LOT.

You have a comic book background and I believe you like the Sin City comics, nes pas? If so, of COURSE you're going to love Sin City and DUDE, *does not point fingers and try to convert, omg*. Like the film! I beg of you!

But going to back to what we have with Padme -- yes, she herself is fetishized and victimized... but it's part of the tragedy of the film's sotyr, not the focus of the storyline. And I don't connect with her really that much which is why I've suddenly become a rabid SW slasher... which blows my mind completely... so...

OH! There was a very strong female jedi in the CLone Wars cartoon that was heading the rescue mission of Palpatine and she was really nifty... even though she ultimately failed and Grievious nabs Palpatine from her.

For some reason, the lack of a Trinity or even a Sam in EpIII doesn't bother me the way it bothers me in other films and franchises... I'll figure that out sooner or later.

... and... *RASPBERRIES YOU*

...

Nope. Still don't get it.

I find Padme's being nothing but a sperm bank much more mysoginistic than the clothing in Sin City.

*pets you* Yay for agreeing to disagree.

Sin City makes me sick to my stomach. It's a personal thing, I'm not yet objective enough to discuss this. kthxbai.

Also, does this mean the feminists love Star Wars? Because if they do, wow. Um. Yeah. Good to know that the only role a woman should have is to keep her boyfriend happy, and have his babies, and die for his love and stupid shit like that.

There are some feminists who love Star Wars for Leia, who was very instrumental and important and wonderful, and for some of the EU characters that are nifty and fun. Most of the feminist film theory I've read on SW only deals with Leia and I read some stuff on the 'net before the prequels came out on the EU. Post-prequels, I've not read much and of course the way they handled Padme is similar to how they handled Arwen in LOTR -- starting off with a tough strong lady with a good deal of power to just the prize at the end (Arwen) and the crying pregnant chick (Padme). The way sf film has been going is steadily downhill where women are concerned... Trinity was really an exception -- and even then I have to be objective and say she kinda isn't in that she got fucked in one film and killed in another.

I wasn't touching the original trio. Just this one. Hrm. I should go see F_rants, and see if they're ranting about it. If not, I will be very sad...

Mmmm, yay, I have a "what females were in the prequels" rant to come because, yes, I am peeved as hell over this. ESPECIALLY that there was apparently this AWESOME scene filmed between Padme and MON MOTHMA and some other female and they were PLOTTING THE REBELLION, omfgwtf. Dude, why cut that?! ::hates:: We know they filmed it as we have PIKTURZ.

*tries one last time before giving up and sulking*

I feel even more cheated, because one of the things I was watching WAS for the Beginning of the Rebellion.!

They should'a kept it.

*sulks*

Especially as they did ALL that sekrit press that Mon Mothma was in it.

The first half of the movie was boring as hell with so much talking and burning dialogue of d00m.

The second part was awesome with the hardly any talking.

Both parts had really pretty graphics.

I want a Yoda icon.

Hey.

The Jedi Plavalaguna was female.

[And some of the Wookiees could've been...?]

Did she talk? I remember seeing her, but there were about twenty to one when it came to the man to woman ratio.

Seriously, people want to talk about misogyny in TV? At least most shows have near-equal amounts of women to men (it probably doesn't help that one of the previews is for Mrs. and Mr. Smith, which has a chick kicking more ass than the guy).

I don't think she talked in this one.

There was also Bail Organa's wife, also who had no lines.

And the women of the Naberrie line.

I don't think it was misogyny, though. I just think it was lucas hyperfocusing on his characters. You notice there was no Solo foreshadowing either in this movie. They foreshadowed everything else about the upcoming next movie but Han's presence.

Lucas has a good sense of fun, but editing, and dialogue? No. Balancing visuals? only a little.

I think it was, and I rarely see misogyny in films. There are no women besides Padme who have lines, even as secondary or minor characters when it would have been easy to give one of the throwaway lines to a woman even without adding any lines or changing the Big Artistic Vision - the kid in the council room, the alien who sells out Grievous, anything. These female Jedi don't even get names onscreen. If you've been browsing the website, you'll know, but in the text itself, they're not even worth names. Even Nute Gunray's refered to by name once. Anakin's downfall is caused by his love for his mother and wife. If he hadn't cared about women, he wouldn't have turned evil. There's no reason for Padme's death, either in the movie, as pointed out by the medic droid, or on a meta-level, since Palpatine's lying to Anakin anyway and they're faking the circumstances of her burial anyway. She just needs to die, even for no reason at all. That last one is the one that really got me as I was watching the movie. Killing off women as punishment for some sort of transgression is so common in movies, that when there's explicitly no relevance to the plot for the death, neither cause for it nor effect from it, it feels incredibly off.

Wow. That's really deep.

I still don't see it, though.

Anakin's mother was his whole life until Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan came along. It makes sense he'd be devoted to her to the point of flipping out when she was endangered.

Sand People would've killed her if she was male or if she was female.

Padme's death was caused by grief and heartbreak, and [in my opinion] sensing the loss of Anakin to the dark side through her children. Palpatine didn't lie to Anakin, exactly. "In your anger you killed her" is not a literal statement. It's manipulative, for sure.

It's an extremely calculated way of saying, "You silly ass; if you had not gone to the dark side, Padme would never have died. It was losing you to the dark side that killed her. You might as well have done it with your own hand." It was an unkind cut on Palpatine's part, meant to drown Anakin in grief and self-loathing so he would find no reason to turn his back on the Dark Side.

It setup a beautiful irony, because the Jedi had been telling Anakin the dark side was not all he'd been growing to wonder and think it was. And now that he's there, he has the proof for himself, losing not only his beloved wife, but his children. He believed the Dark Side would save Padme, but going to it is what killed her exactly as he'd foreseen in his vision. It was his foolish and his failure to think through his options and choices that caused Padme's death. It was his stubbornness. He could've asked Yoda, Bail, any of the bazillion allies in the Jedi. Even if he never gave away that Padme was his wife, the Jedi "care about everyone" after all, he could've said more to Yoda as he was describing his visions of her death.

I honestly think you're giving Lucas way too much credit; credit for thinking way more into this than he is.

The first movie came out in the 70s and was a homage to the old Saturday serials. Those rarely had more than one woman in them - the love interest of the hero. He was following a format he loved in his childhood; and women were not heroes in movies until after the 70s

Ironically enough, the appearance of Leia in the first movie is largely responsible for Hollywood and movie viewers going "hey, girls can kick ass too! Let's do some more of that!"

Oh, I'm not talking about the original movies - I think they were much better when it came to women.

Yes, it made sense that the guy was upset his mother died, even without arguing that he hadn't seen her in ten years (which is a long time for a kid) and she was no longer his life. Yes, Sand People would have killed Shmi either way. But why did they get her at all? Because Anakin needed a first step to turn him to the dark side, and that was slaughtering Sand People in grief. She died so Anakin could be turned to evil out of love for her.

I don't buy that Padme's death was caused by grief and heartbreak. No one ever wasted away during childbirth out of grief. They might not eat or sleep, and eventually die of exhaustion and malnutrition, but you don't just "lose the will to live" and keel over dead without any medical reason. An author might want to kill off a woman in childbirth because she serves no other function in the story, and find a reason to make her keel over dead, although generally they'd make it less obvious by making it as a result of childbirth. (Which is clearly dangerous in a society that doesn't have enough pre-natal care to tell you you're having twins by the time you're as big as a house.)

The irony is great, and I sort of enjoyed it, but it doesn't change the fact that Anakin turns to the Dark Side because of women. Like the most sexist readings of Adam and Eve, women are the cause of Anakin's descent into sin and the one who makes him bite the apple is punished in childbirth for it.

I don't think Lucas is thinking it out, honestly, or he would have realized what a poor message that was. I think it's totally unconscious distaste for women on his part.

...Not because of women, IMO. I spent a decade not on speaking terms with my own mother, and I'd still during that time have cheerfully sliced up anyone who abused and killed her. I had an aunt who was victim of a violent sex crime and walked around for months angry and spoiling for a fight because I couldn't find who had hurt her to take it out on.

And I'm a woman myself.

Anakin made all his choices to some degree with the women in mind. But they were still Anakin's choices.

When he started having Visions about Padme's death, did he even look for any alternative to save her than the Dark Side? No. He kinda talked about it with Yoda, without going into detail, then was all "!!!" when Palpatine baited him with "The Dark Side can save Padme." He wembled about it a little, but the choice had been sliding downward all along. And not just because of his women.

He chafed at having to obey Obi-Wan -- that was a pervasive theme through the whole movie. He was apologetic for it the last time he saw Obi-Wan before the Fall, but he knew full well he had been trying all along to do things his own way despite his Jedi training.

He chafed at the rules of the order. He chafed at not being made a master. He wasn't a master because he was so emotional and acting from there [annoyance, arrogance, selfishness, guilt in the case of Shmi particularly] rather than acting with cool reason. The Jedi council could see this, which is why the boy was not made a master. He was so blinded by feeling insulted [like being strong in the Force alone was enough to earn him Master status?] he never stopped to consider that they had a good reason for not making him a Master. None of that had anything to do with women.

Anakin made foolish choices as a result of his love, love wasn't his only failing.

IMO, true misogyny would've been if these women pushing him to the Dark Side, rather than having been passive catalysts to him going there on his own willingly, IMO.

Although that bit about Gunray sounded off, so I looked it up, and either I'm misremembering that scene or it was a goof, because they were referring to Ki-Adi-Mundi. Hrm, I was sure I heard "General Gunray".

The Twi'lek, right?

I'm not quite enough of a Star Wars fan to look up her race. But I call her the Jedi Plavalaguna because she looks like she's related to Plavalaguna from The Fifth Element.

My problem with the cute Jedi Plavalaguna (and cheers to the name, omfg) is that most of the other Jedi at least got to turn around and fire at least a shot back at the clone troopers. She just got wasted. On a Very Pretty Planet.

It was pretty cringe-worthy. I kept plugging my ears and squirming in my seat every time Padme showed up.

The fighting was nice, though. It had the Troy problem. Too mushified where it ought not to be. I recommend a battle/back-stab short release for this one, just like Troy.

Oh, and I've been planning to see this since I saw the first ever preview. I particularly like how the naming convention allows you to plug in whomever your favorite violent couple is. It's sort of like this very un-PC, yet somehow PC movie about two people trying to kill each other, getting turned on, screwing each other silly and then teaming up. No, that's not a spoiler. It's all in the preview.

It's so simple. I'll go see it even the reviews say it sucks.

I love it because it's got a woman as an assassin, and she's smart and sexy and GOOD.

That there's also what looks like violent wallsex is simply a plus...

;)

(as noted to Indigo, maybe if they showed previews for some 1950s movies the jarring lack of women wouldn't be so bad)

Hee. Exactly. I also like the bits where they're checking on each other, "Are you okay? Oh, you are? Damn." You know, pretending not to care. Keith and I were debating on how long they would blow up their house before realizing someone was manipulating them both into killing each other to facilitate some plot to take over the Secret Spies Base, etc. We called it at an hour.

*points at icon*

daaaa-aaaa-aaaa-mmmn.

*wide eyes*

*pats*

*patted*

That's a great icon. It's just my first reaction was: o.O "harsh."

Even if it is true.

Hee, it is.

liminalliz made it for me. That scene just remains the strongest in the movie for me. But yeah, very harsh.

I now want to erase the word 'misogyny' from the English language.

Also, I think it requires intent.

Which I don't think anyone anywhere really had in any of this.

Banging head on desk now. Bye.

Yeah, Padme was a huge disappointment. She went from a powerful politician and kick-ass poster girl for Girl Power to being a doormat. A boring doormat.

See, I haven't seen the first two, so as far as I'm concerned that's all she'll ever be. I don't see anything Girl Power in her.

Which is sad since she's the only woman with a speaking role in the movie.

You hvaen't seen the first two films? I'm not suggesting that you should for entertinament value... but there are some intersting fucked up gender politics in them... She's MADLY empowered in the first film... if HORRIFICALLY acted. ::kicks natalie portman and her wardrobe::

I am one of five people in North America who hasn't seen Eps 1 & 2. I shall probably keep it that way. *hides*

o.0

The only point where I really went "But dude, where are all the chicks?" was when they showed the Jedi younglings. Not one, nada. But I was so horrified by the dialogue that I didn't really take in the rest. *shrugs*

I think I was acutely conscious because I kept waiting for there to be another woman....

And there wasn't.

At all.

Part of the problem was that the previews all had girls kicking ass in them, iirc (even the awful SharkBoy and Lava Girl thingie). And to not see a single woman in any role except as sperm bank was...

Sickening.

But I'm completely spoiled by Galactica and SG, I suspect.

*is so lost* SharkBoy and Lava Girl???

I was going to ask why there always has to be a touchy-feely woman who's in tune with what's going on (what they tried to do with Padme), but then I thought about SG-1 and realised its equivalent was Daniel ;)

It's a very bad kiddie movie from the Spy Kids people.

*snicker* Good point.

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