Trolls in the dungeon: BSG meta.

[lyssie]

This trolly secret got posted to f!s today, and I'm... a bit annoyed. Sure, it's a troll. But the underlying message: that it's ok to celebrate a female character's death because she dumped your whoobie is... pissing me off.

Link to said secret, full of BSG fail: http://i36.tinypic.com/icl5cz.jpg

So. What did Dee do to Billy?

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure. She was 'dating' him and made a date with Lee, so I guess she was sort of... two-timing? I'm not even sure how that works, with the world having ended and there being no places for a good date, though.

In Dee's mind, I don't know that she and Billy were ever serious--early in season two, she accuses Billy of staying with her because she's the first person to smile after the holocaust (or words to that effect). I've often wondered if Dee was suspecting herself of that, but putting the blame on Billy, because it was easier to push him away than admit she didn't know if she loved him.

So. Dee sort of has this back-and-forth tension with Lee (unfortunately for them, the writers did a really horrible job even putting it on-screen, so what's there is piece-meal and makes little sense), and she makes the decision to try a date with him.

And then Billy proposes, and Dee says no.

Let's be clear, here: Dee has no obligation to accept Billy. Him proposing is not formality because she's already shackled to him. If you think otherwise, why are you on the Internet without a man's permission, and why aren't you trying to get women classed as second-class citizens again?

So Dee turns Billy down, and goes off for her date with Lee without mentioning him to Billy. Lee, meanwhile, is treated to a slightly nervous version of events, with Dee trying to laugh it off in a "civilians are so dumb" way. (Lee, btw, apparently has no trouble dating a woman in a relationship, yet fandom never calls him out for this) Is this rude of Dee? Yeah. Is it stupid? Sure.

But it certainly isn't a reason to want her dead.

I mean, so far, we have:

woman in a relationship makes date with another man.

Kinda, well, sad and not nice, but not a stoning offense.

On the other hand, we have Lee.

During his relationship with Dee, he goes off and has sex with Kara while Kara is also in a relationship (and Kara was already thinking of settling down with Sam in some capacity, so you can't tell me they were just 'frak buddies'). And yet fandom never calls him out on this.

Let's be simple:

Lee cheats on Dee, Lee gets lauded for it and considered a fine, upstanding gentleman.

Dee makes a date with Lee, turns Billy down, and is considered a pariah and a horrible skank, slut, whore, bitch who should die.

And none of you find this the least sexist?

How about racist? Because Kara doesn't get called out on having sex with Lee, either. Kara only gets called out on shouting "Kara loves Lee Adama" and then wandering off and marrying another man in the morning.

As for the racism, I've been reading a lot of meta recently about Uhura from the new ST movie, and how it's racist to call her uppity for going after her job and her man. Sound familiar? Because the tone of the complaints about Dee wanting to date/marry Lee certainly is the same. Mostly, 'how dare that skanky black girl date my white male hero'?

Now, let me ask a question of all of you people who use this as your reason for not liking Dee. Since you are all such huge Billy fans that dumping him makes it ok to demonize a woman... Do you write Billy fic? Do you write fix-its where he doesn't die? Do you write him Mary Sues or other women (or men) sweeping him off his feet and making him better/happy/alive? Do you write meta and verse and song to his greatness? Do you lament every couple of weeks about how he's dead and Ron sucks, and you haven't watched since season two? What about icons? Surely you huge Billy fans MUST be flooding communities with Billy icons, right?

No? No? Really?

Huh. You'd think such massive Billy fans would do everything in their power to--

What's that? You write Kara/Lee fic? You write Roslin/Adama? Or Baltar? Or Caprica? And you've always said that you'd get around to that Billy K. epic, but you've just not had the time while writing porn for people not him and bashing Dee?

Oh.

Gee.

So.... None of you actually do anything for Billy. He's just an excuse so you can white-wash (hahah, see what I did there?) your sexism and racism.

That is awesome. Really.

Also, apparently, people think it's Dee's fault that Billy died. Dee, who said (paraphrasing), "Don't be an idiot, you're not trained as a soldier." Got him killed.

Well. Might as well blame Kara and Lee and Adama then, too.

Kara shot Lee, after all. And if he hadn't been down, I'm sure he would have picked up the gun instead. And Lee is trained for that sort of thing!

Lee was stupid enough to get shot.

Adama ordered the medics to tend to Lee, first. Maybe if they'd gotten to Billy when Dee did, they could have saved him. So i guess it's their fault Billy's dead, too.

OH WAIT. A terrorist shot him.

It is not Dee's or Lee's or Kara's or Adama's fault Billy died. It sucked ass, but it wasn't anyone's fault except Sasha Abinell's and her terrorist activities.

Seriously. You people are racist, sexist assholes. Maybe you should go pretend to be heroes.

Comments

[scarfman]

You've got some great points in here, but there's one that really stood out. Hold on ... wait a minute, here it is right at the beginning: troll.

Merlin is getting grief on this score too. It has magic, and a dragon on the cellar, and people are complaining that the darkskinned girl is ahistorical. Riiight, the anachronism is what bothers you, suuure.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know. But it hasn't been said in a while, and I'm tired of not calling out the casual sexism/racism inherent in it.

I've heard that about Merlin, and while I think making her a maid was hella stupid, objecting to her being there and being non-white is RIDICULOUS. And face-palm-worthy.

[scifiaddict86.livejournal.com]

Yeah it is a rather glaring double standard although I doubt its any more sinister than Dee got in the way of their ship while the other characters didn't. I think the "uppity" example is an interesting one, it does show an slight double standard I've never thought of it a a racist one before. Although in Dee's case since most of her "ambition" exist solely in the minds of her detractors I don't think what your saying fits here.

Also be prepared I give it about three seconds before someone comes along and tries to say you are far too blond to be pointing out race fail at all.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

It would be nice to think that, but I've seen some pretty hinky stuff said in regards to Dee. "Toffee Barbie" comes to mind.

[aj.livejournal.com]

Now, let me ask a question of all of you people who use this as your reason for not liking Dee. Since you are all such huge Billy fans that dumping him makes it ok to demonize a woman... Do you write Billy fic? Do you write fix-its where he doesn't die? Do you write him Mary Sues or other women (or men) sweeping him off his feet and making him better/happy/alive? Do you write meta and verse and song to his greatness? Do you lament every couple of weeks about how he's dead and Ron sucks, and you haven't watched since season two? What about icons? Surely you huge Billy fans MUST be flooding communities with Billy icons, right?

I love how you mostly just describe me. And I've pretty much said from day one that anyone trying to 1. blame Billy's death on Dee 2. call Dee anything other than young and not great at relationships is STUPID.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

*giggles* I considered adding, "No, you just pay lip service, because NONE OF YOU ARE A.j.!"

And that is what MAKES YOU AWESOME. =D

[greycoupon.livejournal.com]

You should link this on the F!S comments. More people are agreeing. I mean...what.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I'd rather not have them troll over here, they'll find it if they search.

[dashakay.livejournal.com]

I'm so not happy at a bunch of people right now. Serious yuck.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I would be ok if they didn't like her! But this... overwhelming glee at her death is just not ok. Sigh.

[cujoy.livejournal.com]

There used to be a Lee/Dee com called Open_Com. Maybe it should be revived.

And Amen to everything Lys said above.

[emmiere.livejournal.com]

This is gross. End of story. *checks everything you said*

Attention-whoring troll=no longer funny.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

I... would like to think it's not racism so much as the usual Die For Our Ship shenanigans with Dee and with Uhura. At least with Battlestar, I know there was a subsection of Lee/Dee shippers who were equally bad about Kara and her supposed 'death; ' with Star Trek you can't really compare because there's no way Kirk/Spock poses any kind of canon threat, internet petitions aside, so there's no reason for Spock/Uhura shippers to take the gloves off. But that may be that last pesky shred of faith in humanity. Some of the comments directed at Dee - toffee Barbie what the HELL - are definitely racist.

I always just saw Billy/Dee as a mis-communication. She thought they were casually dating and he thought they were more serious than that. There's a point in a relationship where you're not really a "couple" and it's still okay to see other people, it's just sometimes hard to define where that ends. (I think Kara and Sam were still there at that point, so I have no real issue with Kara and Lee's almost hookup or if Sam and Sue-Shawn were keeping each other warm, either.) Obviously Dee knew how Billy felt after he proposed, but was that really the time to follow up turning down his proposal with "and I've been seeing someone else?" Maybe not! I don't even blame Lee all that much, since I assume he just figured it was on Dee to worry about her own relationship. There were no bad-guys! It was just sad! Only not that sad because Tory was better, for, er, a while there. ;)

[nicole-anell.livejournal.com]

(nods) All this.

Only not that sad because Tory was better, for, er, a while there.
You know, there are *still* people who say that they hated Tory from the word go because she had that habit of NOT BEING BILLY and existing. That poor kid is responsible for female character hate everywhere you look. XD

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

I haven't watched Sacrifice in a while because I think it's made of epic!fail and I have no interest in it so I could be remembering this wrong but...didn't Dee end things with Billy before her 'date' with Lee? Perhaps, in her mind, she and Billy were already over before she went out with Lee. And are we even sure they made a 'date'? Perhaps they were just both at the same place at the same time?

...Anyway...Even if Dee knowingly made a date with Lee while dating Billy, it does not make her a) EVIL b) slutty or c) deserving of all the crap the writers threw her way.

Dee was a very young woman, probably not all that experienced with relationships, who made some not-so-great choices. She liked Billy. A lot. But clearly, his feelings for her were much more serious than hers for him. That's not her fault. When he proposed, she didn't lead him on. She told him in that very moment that she couldn't marry him. Now, maybe a lot of that had to do with her feelings for Lee but that doesn't make her a bad person. It makes her a confused, conflicted person who did her best not to hurt anyone. No fault there.

Then you have the people who blame her for Billy's death. Um...were they even watching the show?! Clearly, Billy planned on doing exactly what Dee told him NOT to do: He wanted to save her (and everyone else) and tried to take down the bad guys even though he had no training. Now, I love Billy but that was a stupid decision. Heroic and brave but also stupid. And in no way was it Dee's fault, though I'm sure she felt tremedous guilt over his death as anyone would in that position.

And ITA with creating a Dee comm, especially if it's a comm for other female characters screwed over by the writers and the vilified by the majority of the fandom (Tory, Boomer, Cally, etc...)

[greycoupon.livejournal.com]

The "OP" has arrived http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/366388.html?thread=198521652

Nope, nothing suspect there! not only her first secret but 1st comment...anywhere.

[karma-aster.livejournal.com]

And people ask me why I'm not active in BSG fandom. Or why I'm not even all that serious of a BSG fan.

Ya'll have more crazy and drama than ReBoot fandom. That's terrifying.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know.

SG still has us beat, though, bb.

[zahdahe.livejournal.com]

Sweetie! Why are you trying to educate jackasses! Billy was sweet and lovely but IMHO if they had married the marriage would have died within 3 months due to the novelty wearing off! I tend to avoid character bashing even if I violently dislike them. I refuse to upset my delicate specialness for them! They are really overjoyed Simone is dead, elle is dead and Noah, Monica, DL and missus are gone too. You can't win with dumb ones!

You hit it on the nail!

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Because I like ranting with less swear words. =D

[meresy.livejournal.com]

What's this?! Multiple-'ist' douchebaggery on MY internet? Say it ain't... a day ending in 'y'.

*headdesk*

[actourdreams.livejournal.com]

Word.

tongue firmly in cheek

[actourdreams.livejournal.com]

No, no, you see, the point of female characters is to fulfill their one and only role as a male character's love interest. If they should deviate from that, by say, having a personality that leads them away from him or desires other than his, they are clearly bitches who deserve to die.

Re: tongue firmly in cheek

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

BWAHAHAHAH.... Yes. Yes, that.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

::hugs you:: I had to quit fandom secrets because every time I try to load it, I need to reset my modem and that gets old real fast. But still. (And yeah, it's probably a troll, but I fully enjoy a good wank.)

Was what Dee did to Billy right? I have a pretty black-and-white view of cheating, and I'm going to say overall no, it wasn't. However, let's consider a few facts:

1.) Even if she'd cheated on her spouse, Dee doesn't deserve death. Adultery is not a sin punishable by death anymore- heck, if you read the Bible that's what the whole "ye who is without sin cast the first stone" bit comes from- when Jesus saves a woman accused of adultery. (Although where her partner is when she's being stoned is a mystery for the ages.)

2.) As said, Dee didn't cheat on her spouse. I'm not even sure she technically cheated. She barely left 24 hours in between the two, but I'm not positive she cheated.

3.) Dee is in her early twenties. Anyone who has never, ever made a relationship mistake and hurt someone else, please raise your hand.

I know I'm totally preaching to the choir here, but I'm also totally procrastinating ;)

Bottom line, Dee is awesome, kick ass, one of the nicest characters on BSG (sorry, but even if you call it cheating, she didn't send out suicide bombers or start a mutiny), and more gorgeous than most of us will ever be. The biggest crime the show committed regarding Dee was horribly underusing her and getting wrong which Dee-Adama relationship was more interesting. (And not hooking her up with Narcho after she left Dee, because there is no amount of words that can quantify the pretty of that pairing.)

::hugs Dee::

[hobbitofkobol.livejournal.com]

here via galacticanews ;)

so I'm a Billy fan. Thought you'd like to hear from us lol.

I think the issue I had with Dee was that she knew how Billy felt about her and after months of flirting/dating, she goes on a date with someone else and doesn't tell him. And then his death didn't seem to affect her (while we see Roslin visiting Billy's body, Dee is already back to flirting with Lee). It felt like "now that Billy's dead I can jump into that new relationship!" The writers did a real mess handling Paul Campbell's departure. Apparently Kandyse herself didn't understand her character sometimes...

BUT on the Lee/Dee drama? I've recently rewatched the whole series and I'm totally on Dee's side. Lee is like "nooooo I swear, I'm so NOT cheating on you!" when everyone and their dead cat know he is.

And when she died? Man, I was so shocked. So many deaths on that show but that one was the most shocking to me. And made me cry. And now we know that they do find a suitable planet just a few weeks (months?) later and it's even sadder :(