current BSG fic/meta things annoying me.

[lyssie]

1. Dee was not strong enough to accept Billy's deep and meaningful love. (really?) While I do think things with Billy were sort of a catalyst, I also think she does (and did) love Lee.

2. Kara turned down utter happiness to marry mediocre happiness.

3. Cylons are evil and should be destroyed in the fires of creation. I don't know when I started having Cylon love and understanding, but I think it started with the fact that there just aren't enough people for the human race to be viable if the Cylons aren't around. So, suck it, haters.

Huh. I think I had another one, but now I've forgotten it.

Comments

[hecatesknickers.livejournal.com]

1. Right. While I liked Dee/Billy, and really hated the way it was handled at the end and therefore spent time hating Lee/Dee for awhile afterwards, how anyone could think she DOESN'T love Lee baffles me.

2. Because of course risking a crew to go back and save someone you love totally means that person is settling for mediocre. And then staying with that person through all kinds of shit, always going BACK to that person no matter what, etc. Logic does not apply!

3. In this entire fandom, I think this will always be the thing that baffles me the most. WHAT SHOW ARE THESE PEOPLE WATCHING? Is there another version of each episode that's only for the sooper-special, non-sheep fans?

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

2. What's really funny is that, if someone were saying it, as the other was round (ie, Kara could'a been SOOoooooooo happy with Sam and left him for Lee, etc), I'm pretty sure I'd still be annoyed by it! Possibly on a lesser scale, but.

3. They are watching the special the Devil is the Cylon God version? The one that cuts to weird visions of Hell, where the Cylons giggle about destroying humanity. Or something.

*ponders* Actually, that version might be kind of funny.

[musicforcylons.livejournal.com]

So, suck it, haters.

Besides, without them, we'd lose fifty percent of the snark. That is just unacceptable people!

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

THIS IS SO TRUE.

Man. A world without Eight snark and Three snark (ESPECIALLY THREE SNARK, OMG) and Six snark and Cavil's not being able to use airquotes when saying "God". *hand on heart* It would be so flat and sad. It would be like Leverage without Parker!

[cynthia-arrow.livejournal.com]

Oh, that first one really pisses me off. I hate the implication that just because someone loves you, that means you should love them back. And I agree--she did (does?) love Lee.

You know how I feel about #2, I hope. And for #3, I've been a Cylon lover since day one. That's just how I am--completely detached from reality (genocide) and easily enamored of interesting characters.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Yes, that. And while I think she still loves Lee, they're different people now. She's moved on (besides, she doesn't have time for a personal life with all that running the fleet stuff--after all, Adama and Tigh aren't doing it... And Gaeta can only do so much from his hospital bed).

I can remember hating the Cylons and wanting them dead. And... it just changed and I'm not sure when or how (heck, I remember wanting Athena dead!). Siiigh. Oh, Cylons = <3.

[mamaboolj.livejournal.com]

I wholeheartedly agree with every item on your list!

[prozacpark.livejournal.com]

1. I think that the fact that Dee is willing to sort of let go of something she knows in order to give a relationship with Lee (when she knows about the Kara/Lee issues) a chance makes her incredibly strong.

2. Meh. I totally think that even though she loved Lee in some ways, the reason she walked away is because she realized that she could not be happy with him given all their baggage, while Sam sort of represents a new start and a chance at happiness. On a related issue: I sort of really, really hate it when people make Kara's decision to marry Sam all about her relationship with Lee. As if she would've randomly married Tigh if Tigh were the only one there just to not marry Lee.

Kara's first thought, after the sex with Lee, is along the lines of "What do we tell them?" She clearly didn't see it as the ONE TRUE NIGHT OF LOVE that will lead to eternal happiness because, um, she's wondering how she's going to explain this to Sam. ;)

3. Yeah, and I think that the humans are starting to understand that, too. That if they keep fighting them, of course, they'll never win. So there has to be a truce. Not forgiveness yet, but really, they can't survive at this point without some integration and mingling.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

3. Forgiveness isn't something that's easy, and the Cylons certainly haven't asked for it. God. I want the rest of the series to actually deal with this stuff well. :/

2. I always read the scene as Kara being uncertain, but knowing that it was a complication that couldn't just be handwaved away. Lee, otoh, seemed to think it meant he'd won and Kara was his forevermore, and no one and nothing could stand in their way.

1. Dee deciding to try with Lee was pretty damned gutsy, really. She didn't know how it would go, she didn't know if she'd end up alone, but she did know it wasn't going to be simple.

[emmiere.livejournal.com]

1&2, what? Brain does not comprehend.

3. I can see people hating the Cylons, I'm an unashamed Cylon fan and I'm still irritated that they have never once apologized for destroying humanity. But, the first episode I ever really saw with any intention of watching the show was Downloaded, so yeah. I was a lost cause to Team Cylon from the beginning. One-dimensional robot villains are so boring.

[tiredmomof2.livejournal.com]

I actually like the cylons too. But I am having a hard time believing that the humans would forgive them or even work with them. I think it would be like asking Jews in 1950 to forgive and/or work with Nazis/Germans. I just don't see that happening. Remember that Prez Adar offered unconditional surrender to the cylons and they refused. They took the 12 colonies from probably about 50 billion people to 50,000. Probably everyone in the fleet has had some family members and friends who were killed.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

3. I'm not sure if they know how to apologize. They're still learning.

[meresy.livejournal.com]

1. I think she loved Lee quite a bit. I think he totally fell down on loving her back properly, though.

2. Whaa? Because Kara would be instantly well-adjusted and ready for the big things if she was with someone other than Sam. Right. Hearts and flowers everywhere. Leland wouldn't know what to do with her if he had her, clearly.

3. Because black and white reasoning is what's called for in the greyest of shows, y/y?

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

1. Lee fails at that sort of thing. I would kick him, if I could.

2. You know the only reason she flirts with Leoben is because Sam's not enough man for her. ;]

3. Obvsly. I mean, I tend to fall on the "everyone is wonderful and white-hats" side. BUT STILL.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

1. I get Dee leaving Billy. She was never as into it as he was and I think the show made that pretty clear. And she definitely love(d?) Lee. I think the show actually did a good job portraying her growing affection with him from the end of s1. But I couldn't really get behind her choice to marry him knowing and having witnessed the Kara/Lee frakkedupness and, more importantly, with the incredibly anvillicious and selfish and unromantic proposal from Lee. Shipping aside, that scene in the raptor from UB Extended totally made it so I could never invest in the Lee/Dee relationship the way I could (to some extent) Kara/Sam. I feel more badly about the fact that Dee was pretty awesome and asseertive in s1 and s2 and the bad marriage turned her into this sad, bitchy/naggy wife stereotype, which was really a shame.

2. I'm guilty of falling into this line of thinking sometimes, but honestly I don't think it's in Kara's nature to be fully happy with all that fear inside. And I think Kara's a sap deep down and felt really bad/couldn't face having to tell Anders, because she did love him and she knew he'd be hurt. Lee was like Whatever about telling Dee. (Another reason why I do not cosign the Lee/Dee relationship.)

3. Um, as a whole, the cylons kind of bore me, I must admit. But that being said, I'm somewhat confused as to how they go from alliance/working with them to everyone pretty much wanting to kill them (as the promos seem to indicate.) I wonder if there'll be more showcasing of the civilian side of the fleet in 4.5 or if that'll all be funneled through Quorom meetings (in which case, oh. joy.)/Zarek.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

1. I think the way canon went was a sort of about-face of the groundwork laid down in season two. It's like completely different people wrote both seasons. The second group was given a list of things that had happened and told "make it sexier and more like a soap opera". And so they did. And it wrecked a lot of the relationships that had previously seemed fairly solid.

3. The same way we go from Adama saying Cally is his favoritist person ever to him putting her up against a bulkhead and shooting her? Ie, the writers are inconsistent and not particularly good at the craft of characterization.

2. Kara would never be happy with Lee. He would bore her to tears and drive her insane.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Sorry. I realized at some point today when having a conversation with someone else entirely that I'd been touchy the other day.

So I'd like to apologize for snapping at you and being obnoxious. Because I have said things like "Sam will make Kara more happy than Lee" (but with better grammar, I expect).

I just don't tend to do it often because writing fic or squeeing about things (usually not having anything to do with BSG, unless there are new promo pics) occupies me more.

[ellestra.livejournal.com]

1.I don't get this. She didn't love Billy, she was already interested in someone else when he proposed. So she said no. I never understood what they wanted her to do. Lie to him? Pretend to to love him? Marry him and then have affair with Lee?
I just wish Lee had guts to do the same. Instead of pulling her into his misguided quest for revenge. Yes, I blame Lee for the utter failure that marriage was. She was at least honest to herself and knew what she wanted.

2.And when did Lee made her happy? When ever they try anything romantic it gets angsty and uncomfortable. And sex doesn't solve anyone's problems - it can just postpone it. At least with Sam she talks.

3. I never considered cylons evil. I understood what they did - it had that perfect cold war logic - eliminate them before they eliminate us. I'm sure humans would do the same if given chance and not even think about destroying things. The only thing that stopped us was the fact it is a no win scenario when living on the same planet. very human thing - fear and paranoia.
I also liked how they started to diverge and get unique personalities. How they are growing up.
Still I don't think the current generation of humans could ever forgive them or stop hating them. Humans are just wired that way. Easier for children who don't remember what has been lost. It just that they don't have much choice. Beggars can't be choosers.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

1. I think everyone just assumes Dee doesn't really love Lee. I think Billy dying was a catalyst for her wanting to cling to him (and Lee almost dying TWICE under her watch, too). I think if the writers weren't so hung up on Kara/Lee being their best thing ever, that Dee and Lee would have been perfectly fine together, instead of the really horribly-characterized mish-mash we got.

2. I think if Kara and Lee were completely different people, if she were a nicer person and more conventional, like, say, a fifties housewife, Lee would make her happy. And Kara would make him happy. But as it stands, right now? The people they are would never make the other happy.

3. I'm pretty sure forgiveness is the point of the show, though.

Fandom is weird

[scifiaddict86.livejournal.com]

1. I personally think this type of thinking is from Bamber Bunnies who don't believe Lee ever does anything wrong so of course it must be Dee's fault that their marriage failed.

2. This also smells of Lee apologists thinking becuse of course Kara can't have been as happy with Sam because it makes everything Lee did (cheating on his wife etc.) to resuce Kara from Sam okay. I also think that some people really don't see Kara and Sam as a happy couple because there's been so little of that actually onscreen. I think people who have watched from the beginning remember when Lee and Kara were the twins who played on the lawn on cloud nine so its easier to picture them happy together. Personally I think these people are idiots becuse Lee is a dick who really isn't capable of making anyone happy but whatever.


3. I don't want all of them to die or anything like that but if only Caprica, Athena Tigh Sam and Galen lived I would be okay with that. I agree with what was said above that it is like asking a holocaust survivor to forgive the Nazi's. I think some things are unforgivable and bllions of people isone of them

Re: Fandom is weird

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

1. Oh, I think both of them had a hand in their failing marriage. Lee, especially. I also think it's the product of really bad writing and horrible characterization.

2. I like Lee. I like Kara. I don't like them together. I think Lee has the capacity for happiness, but he's really bad at letting himself feel it.

3. Then you're really not going to like the ending of the show. Because that's exactly where it's going: forgiveness and not visiting the sins of the parents on the children.

[otoselkie.livejournal.com]

I'm impressed at the powers of "not getting it" that the people writing 3 must have. Because the point of the whole damn show is that the Cylons aren't unmitigated evil and the humans will (presumably) have to learn to live and work with them.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Some days, I am certain me and these other people watch vastly different shows. Their version comes from some AU where Ron is trying to make the Cylons Nazis.

[aj.livejournal.com]

1. Who do I have to verbally eviscerate for trying to drag their weird gender issues (re: Billy's love) onto My Boy? Dee? Was YOUNG. Billy? Was a boyfriend/friend she clung to after a horrific event. I very much see her attaching to him as comfort and eventually trying to distance herself from him 1. because she's stupid-young (I think like 19/20 in the mini) and didn't want that kind of relationship just then/with him 2. because it's an understandable reaction to want to avoid anything that reminds you of said horrific event, even people who helped you through it 3. Billy was really into commitment. It makes sense that that would freak her the fuck out.

Don't get me wrong, I ADORE MY BOY (see all posts relating to BsG in the last 4 years) but he's the type of guy that can scare women off because he'll look at them like they hung the moon and stars and some girls can't take that kind of assumed deification. (Which it totally ISN'T. It's just him being in love and thinking that pretty much everything about a person is great.) Sigh.

Seriously, I'll bitchsmack someone.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Large portions of this fandom, but it's ok! I am, um, killing them with my mind. Or something.

I love you lots, and the thing is, I so so wish Dee had more time to come to terms with Billy and what he was like. I WISH.... But I'm stuck with what might have-beens. And cracky Toasterlandia AUs.

[noybusiness.livejournal.com]

These all definitely annoy me. Especially #2. Yes, Kara thought things would be less complicated with Sam than with Lee. No, that doesn't mean she would have been blissfully happy with Lee. More the opposite. Duh.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

And the thing that makes me want to throw things is I don't think Kara is going to be blissfully happy with ANYONE. for one thing, she's on TV, and women aren't allowed happiness on TV She's just too abused and set in her ways.