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Cylons and cyber-brains and Classic Trek, oh my.
Originally, I was just going to cut for length, but this also contains spoilers for Ghost in the Shell, Ghost in the Shell: Stand-Alone Complex (seasons one AND two), Battlestar Galactica (new, and again, both seasons), Classic Star Trek (I, Mudd), and vague things for Timothy Zahn's Star Wars novels... (you know, the trilogy that was actually good before it descended into utter crap)
Cylons and cyber-brains and Classic Trek, oh my.
I was watching classic Trek, and I, Mudd was on. In it, we have a whole slew of robots (Cylons, oh my) in many models, but they're all, essentially, controlled by one thing--Norman, their main unit. Norman and the others all link together to form a huge brain--a cyber-brain, to steal Ghost in the Shell terminology. To stop them, Kirk and crew do entirely illogical things (saying one thing, doing the opposite, etc), the illogic slowly breaks them.
They get turned into immobile statues, unable to puzzle things out--Kirk finally cracks Norman with Mudd's help.
Kirk: Everything Mr. Mudd says is a lie.
Mudd: I'm lying.
Norman grinds to a halt (hey, poor thing, he'd been bombarded with tons of other stuff beforehand and all the rest of the units are down, so, no enhanced cyber-brain), doesn't quite disappear in a puff of logic, but it's a near thing.
The question then becomes, in GitS terms, can Kuze be taken down with illogic? Or are human cyber-brains based in illogic, and thus able to adapt faster than a hard-wired android brain?
Can Kuze actually be killed? His body is entirely cybernetic, what if he simply slides into the net (stand-alone complex is a central theme to this series, they reference it over and over again). Kuze does not equal Norman, because Norman started life as a machine. In essence, he has no ghost.
--sidetrack, of course. Are Mudd's robots related to the human-form Cylons? Is Mudd the Cylon God?
We assume that Cylons are connected, in some way. But they're not connected in the same way--there's no over-all cyber-brain, no connection at a conscious level -- but at the subconscious? Kuze's method is what Zahn postulated the Emporer used the Force for in SW--which I suppose does make the Cylons connected to a larger cyber-brain, but without as much conscious control--er, subconscious melding that allows for a larger field of control. Kuze doesn't control the refugees, but he gives them a stable pool of balance and willpower to pull from--Zahn just used the Force, instead of a cyber-brain.
Hrm. On further thought, Kuze is their leader, he can answer questions if they simply ask them of him, wherever he is, because his brain is literally a nexus on the 'net, and he's connected to everything.
The Cylons have to have some method of communication given things like the stolen footage of Sharon being sent back to Caprica. Granted, it was simply a burst to the raiders that blipped in and out.
Norman is the Emporer is Kuze is the Cylon God?
Also, on a completely other tangent, after having seen Hari getting caned, suddenly Leoben and Kara seems more like afternoon tea. I suspect Ronald Merrick would've had Leoben crying into his tea... And possibly asking him for water. sigh.
Back to my original discussion.
Is the soul a ghost?
If Cylon models have different personalities, and, in essence, their own ghosts, do they have souls? Kara certainly thought Leoben had something that made him (not to put words in her mouth) human. She prayed for his soul, after all.
Does the presence of a soul define humanity, or, by the very definition, do souls only exist if you're human (what's that say about Baltar?)?
Or are souls separate and attached to brains (again, with the downloading--cylon models change bodies as often as the Major changes hers, although she tends not to die in-between), and personalities?
How much of a Cylon's personality is programmed, how much learned, how much adaptive AI?
Of course, Mudd's androids were all programmed to be the same, and didn't appear to truly have adaptive programming.
And humans, even humans with cyber-brains that are connected to a massive network, are still supposed to have independent thought and free will.
I suppose this means Kuze just needs a little love. And Goda needs a chainsaw up his ass.
Cylons and cyber-brains and Classic Trek, oh my.
I was watching classic Trek, and I, Mudd was on. In it, we have a whole slew of robots (Cylons, oh my) in many models, but they're all, essentially, controlled by one thing--Norman, their main unit. Norman and the others all link together to form a huge brain--a cyber-brain, to steal Ghost in the Shell terminology. To stop them, Kirk and crew do entirely illogical things (saying one thing, doing the opposite, etc), the illogic slowly breaks them.
They get turned into immobile statues, unable to puzzle things out--Kirk finally cracks Norman with Mudd's help.
Kirk: Everything Mr. Mudd says is a lie.
Mudd: I'm lying.
Norman grinds to a halt (hey, poor thing, he'd been bombarded with tons of other stuff beforehand and all the rest of the units are down, so, no enhanced cyber-brain), doesn't quite disappear in a puff of logic, but it's a near thing.
The question then becomes, in GitS terms, can Kuze be taken down with illogic? Or are human cyber-brains based in illogic, and thus able to adapt faster than a hard-wired android brain?
Can Kuze actually be killed? His body is entirely cybernetic, what if he simply slides into the net (stand-alone complex is a central theme to this series, they reference it over and over again). Kuze does not equal Norman, because Norman started life as a machine. In essence, he has no ghost.
--sidetrack, of course. Are Mudd's robots related to the human-form Cylons? Is Mudd the Cylon God?
We assume that Cylons are connected, in some way. But they're not connected in the same way--there's no over-all cyber-brain, no connection at a conscious level -- but at the subconscious? Kuze's method is what Zahn postulated the Emporer used the Force for in SW--which I suppose does make the Cylons connected to a larger cyber-brain, but without as much conscious control--er, subconscious melding that allows for a larger field of control. Kuze doesn't control the refugees, but he gives them a stable pool of balance and willpower to pull from--Zahn just used the Force, instead of a cyber-brain.
Hrm. On further thought, Kuze is their leader, he can answer questions if they simply ask them of him, wherever he is, because his brain is literally a nexus on the 'net, and he's connected to everything.
The Cylons have to have some method of communication given things like the stolen footage of Sharon being sent back to Caprica. Granted, it was simply a burst to the raiders that blipped in and out.
Norman is the Emporer is Kuze is the Cylon God?
Also, on a completely other tangent, after having seen Hari getting caned, suddenly Leoben and Kara seems more like afternoon tea. I suspect Ronald Merrick would've had Leoben crying into his tea... And possibly asking him for water. sigh.
Back to my original discussion.
Is the soul a ghost?
If Cylon models have different personalities, and, in essence, their own ghosts, do they have souls? Kara certainly thought Leoben had something that made him (not to put words in her mouth) human. She prayed for his soul, after all.
Does the presence of a soul define humanity, or, by the very definition, do souls only exist if you're human (what's that say about Baltar?)?
Or are souls separate and attached to brains (again, with the downloading--cylon models change bodies as often as the Major changes hers, although she tends not to die in-between), and personalities?
How much of a Cylon's personality is programmed, how much learned, how much adaptive AI?
Of course, Mudd's androids were all programmed to be the same, and didn't appear to truly have adaptive programming.
And humans, even humans with cyber-brains that are connected to a massive network, are still supposed to have independent thought and free will.
I suppose this means Kuze just needs a little love. And Goda needs a chainsaw up his ass.
no subject
Goda's main criterion for choosing Kuze to fill this role was ostensibly that Kuze - like Goda - is a virgin. Therefore, get 'em together, get 'em drunk, steal all their clothes, let nature take its course, and voila! No more nuclear brinksmanship!
QED
By the way, you may also want to take a look at Transformers: Beast Machines for some similar themes, particularly focusing on Megatron's plans.