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Can I be a guy, please?
Guys don't sit around picking shit apart because it might, horror of horrors, make them look like chicks. Do they? I mean, seriously, do they?
Do guys care that Sin City basically protrays them all as psychos, rapists, murders and bent coppers?
So far, I haven't heard this complaint.
Maybe it's just a more honorable profession.
eta: I mean, c'mon. Men on my flist! Tell me! Do you sit around gasping in horror anytime a man is portrayed as a stereotype? Do you pick apart movies and whine about how your characters aren't allowed to be well-rounded?
I really wanna know (can I go sexless? Wait. I like sex. Hrm. This could be a problem. Genderless? Is there any way to be from a certain group that doesn't act batshit insane?)
Do guys care that Sin City basically protrays them all as psychos, rapists, murders and bent coppers?
So far, I haven't heard this complaint.
Maybe it's just a more honorable profession.
eta: I mean, c'mon. Men on my flist! Tell me! Do you sit around gasping in horror anytime a man is portrayed as a stereotype? Do you pick apart movies and whine about how your characters aren't allowed to be well-rounded?
I really wanna know (can I go sexless? Wait. I like sex. Hrm. This could be a problem. Genderless? Is there any way to be from a certain group that doesn't act batshit insane?)
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*looks confused*
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(now I'm confused)
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I would start re-explaining, but I'm not sure it's worth it
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Actually, while there were strong female parts, there were equally weaker parts that females played...
I think that too much can be read into the role of stereotypes in movies nowadays. Like PCness, you'll always find something that's a stereotype.
But yeah, IMHO, there are worse stereotypes that need to be addressed than what I saw today on the movie screen...
But then one can always say... "It's just a movie!" SC, while an excellent movie, is not exactly the paragon of stereotyped characters. They were simply people who had adapted to their surroundings. Stereotyped? In a way, yes, as it does show that everyone who lives in a crappy city like Basin City are hard-nosed killers, etc...
But as real-life stereotypes?
No way.
And yes, you know I pick things apart.
Then again, Mom always said I'd make someone a good wife. ;)
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It is for this reason that I believe in freedom of speech for Noam Chomsky. :P
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Virginia Slims still had their marketing campaign slogan, supposedly pro-feminist, of "You've Come A Long Way, Baby." And there were so many things a woman Just Couldn't Do. (Or maybe it was Shouldn't.)
Luckily, I had a father who saw no reason why his daughter shouldn't be encouraged to try to work on cars and put stuff together (until he actually did, and found out that I hammer thumbs and miss the nails as many times as don't, and do things like strip unstrippable bolts and the like. But he waited until I proved I don't have the aptitude). You'd be surprised how many of my age group would never consider learning something like changing a tire, despite the fact that they might've been stuck somewhere v. far from help because of it.
...
Kind of far afield, but I thought I'd comment. Maybe I should've woken up first.
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My cousin is 53 years old, and has NO idea how to pump her own gas. If she MUST go to a gas station that doesn't have full-service pumps, she will PAY another patron $10 to do it for her.
She also doesn't know how to change a tire, or put antifreeze/oil/windshield washer fluid in. On the latter, though, it may very well be that she just -won't-. When I was eight, I asked her why, and she said, "Because that's not my job".
So, yeah, Lyss. On average, women are fucking intolerable.
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I do dislike men as being protrayed as only wanting one thing out of women and willing to lie for it.
I pick apart movies only to make fun of them :)
I don't think you'll ever find well-rounded enough characters to satisfy everyone,especially not from a movie ased on a comic book.
To me movies are best when they make think and totally suck you in and you forget you're watching a movie.
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I'm afraid I'm a terribly old fashioned sort - I hold open doors, pull out chairs, insist on paying for dinner until the lady in question says "Oh be quiet, I'm paying." I do it because it's friendly, and being pleasent.
"Tell me! Do you sit around gasping in horror anytime a man is portrayed as a stereotype? Do you pick apart movies and whine about how your characters aren't allowed to be well-rounded?"
Nope. Two of my favourite actors are Terry-Thomas and Leslie Phillips, who played the same caddish stereotypes film after film...
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In fiction, like Sin City, it doesn't bother me, with one caveat, which should become clear should be kind of clear in a moment.
It bothers me when supposedly learned people -- mostly professors in Women or Gender Studies departments portray all sex as rape, and all men as rapists.
So my caveat is: It only bothers me in fiction when the message or agenda of the author is to say that all men are born rapists and murderers.
Since that's not Frank Miller's intent, it doesn't bother me. It's just a story.
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(Anonymous) 2005-04-07 03:53 pm (UTC)(link)Please let it crash in my lifetime, and preferably before they affect any more of my daughetrs' rights!
Sandy
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Do guys care that Sin City basically protrays them all as psychos, rapists, murders and bent coppers?
I think the distinction is that Sin City is made by men who are clearly not psycho rapist murderers and can be counted on to know that their male characters are representative of all men everywhere. Men see that and understand it, and aren't offended.
Women--well, especially sensitive feminists, I suppose--see a bunch of guys depicting all their female characters as prostitutes and assume it's based on some deep-rooted misogyny or something.
To really turn it around you need an example of something created by women that paints men in a horrible light, like that show Mommies a few years ago that my mom loved and I could not stand because the joke was that the husbands were helpless, ineffectual, and stupid. With that I was a mite offended because I honestly couldn't tell if the show's creators (who were probably largely female) were just exaggerating to make a point or legitimately thought all men are useless babies.
But in general I think men are less offended by this sort of thing than women--and when I say "men" and "women" I mean the most sensitive and reactionary examples of each sex--because the feminist complaint is that we've lived in a male-dominated society for a gazillion years. Mommies got cancelled after a couple of years. Sin City is the #1 movie in the nation and critically acclaimed all over the place. So for hyper-sensitive men, fighting misandry is a minor hassle; for hyper-sensitive women, fighting misogyny is a never-ending battle and stuff.
In general I'm not offended by Frank Miller's prostitute archetype because she kicks way more ass than all the other characters, and never seems to actually be, well, prostituting herself, because she's too busy using her kewl ninja skillz. I don't even know why Millers whores actually are whores--you'd think they'd just become mercenaries or assassins-for-hire, then use the profits from that to do whatever they want. Elektra Natchios, for instance, has this all figured out.
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Thank you. =)
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In a word, no. :-/
And I'm told I'm not a typical "guy", so maybe that's why I'm not a psycho rapist scumbag. At least not last I checked, anyway.