WHY did Cavil unbox Three during The Hub? If he already knew the answer to what she knew, WHY was there a need to? Hell, even BOOMER knew the answer, at that point.
I think scifiaddict's got it, the only thing I remember is him saying something about "bring this civil war to an end". But it's still kind of vague nonsense really because...was he really going to still try and keep the Five secret?
I think he didn't want to admit he knew it all all along and made others forget and manipulated them all the way. He needed three so he could pretend he didn't know just like the other models. Or something.
I think even he was lost in his own schemes sometimes. Or that might've been RDM.
As far as I can tell, Cavil wanted D'Anna to call up the Rebel Cylons and ask them to end the war, so they could put the Cylon band back together. Unity was the goal.
As for the Final Five thing, it doesn't really fit: if the Five was the big secret that could undo Cavil's work, he would never have unboxed D'Anna. And if he can reprogram memories, then there's no reason why he couldn't have erased the part where D'Anna saw the Five, and then unboxed her. Or he could have shot the 2/6/8s, let them download, and then erased the part where they were mad at him, instead of killing them all. Etc.
Unfortunately, the big "Cavil did everything" retcon doesn't really fit his behavior in season 4.0. Or season 3. Or anything in seasons 2 or 1, either. Or The Plan, which is sort of sad since they came up with that afterward. :P
I suspect every day was Canon Optional Fridays in the BSG writing room...
I suspect every day was Canon Optional Fridays in the BSG writing room...
<3 bwahahahaha.
And good points, although, I can sort of buy the Cavil stuff. Sort of.
But the memories thing is a massive point. *ponders* Perhaps he still had some sort of vestige of "don't go there, because then the toys aren't real toys" or something.
But the memories thing is a massive point. *ponders* Perhaps he still had some sort of vestige of "don't go there, because then the toys aren't real toys" or something.
I dunno, I don't buy it. I can almost see a "toys aren't real toys"/"can't do it because they're still family"/"if I make them agree, then they're not really agreeing" sort of thing from him... but not with regards to D'Anna. She's just one Three, so I doubt Mr. Mechanical Copies would have much of a problem with altering her memories an eensy little bit, just enough to take out the incriminating part. I can see him thinking she knows the secret quick quick wipe her frakkin' brain, but not "oh hi I unboxed you, why don't we have a nice casual chat about that".
It just doesn't fit; if he had the power to make D'Anna simply forget what she'd seen, he wouldn't have any reason to stick his neck out (heh!) like he did on the Hub.
In general, his behavior in season 3 and 4.0 always struck me as that of a person trying to cover up someone else's secret, not his own. He seemed afraid of what would happen to the Cylons if the word got out, not to himself... reuniting the Cylons seemed much more important to him than keeping D'Anna in the box (just as unity and consensus was so important that he allowed the Three to bluff him on nuking the Temple of Five), and that's why he was willing to risk the latter to get the former.
I think it's pretty obvious that his role as Mwa Ha Ha Villain Overlord was invented out of whole cloth during season 4.5... and like most of the ideas the writers had post-hiatus, it doesn't quite match up with what came before. :P
If he did that and she spoke to them, it would be clear he could erase memories. I also get the impression that the humanoids had evolved past the point where reprogramming was going to work. Their "don't think or talk about the Five" inhibition had already failed.
If he did that and she spoke to them, it would be clear he could erase memories.
The only thing D'Anna had done so far was to claim to have seen the Five. Cavil could have written the memory over with some vaguely meaningful dream or something (an Opera House, perhaps?), and I doubt anyone would have questioned it, as they all ran off to find a nebula shaped like a pair of mating eagles or whatever. Or he could have picked five humans at random...
I also get the impression that the humanoids had evolved past the point where reprogramming was going to work. Their "don't think or talk about the Five" inhibition had already failed.
I guess I could see that, but the simpler explanation is that this is something else which doesn't match with the idea that Cavil was supposed to have been able to manipulate memories. Especially since he bragged that his memory-retrieving abilities had only increased since the early days, during No Exit...
Of course, we're all missing the obvious, here, as we argue very seriously over canon when it's quite obvious that
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I think even he was lost in his own schemes sometimes. Or that might've been RDM.
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And it was totally Ron, too.
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As for the Final Five thing, it doesn't really fit: if the Five was the big secret that could undo Cavil's work, he would never have unboxed D'Anna. And if he can reprogram memories, then there's no reason why he couldn't have erased the part where D'Anna saw the Five, and then unboxed her. Or he could have shot the 2/6/8s, let them download, and then erased the part where they were mad at him, instead of killing them all. Etc.
Unfortunately, the big "Cavil did everything" retcon doesn't really fit his behavior in season 4.0. Or season 3. Or anything in seasons 2 or 1, either. Or The Plan, which is sort of sad since they came up with that afterward. :P
I suspect every day was Canon Optional Fridays in the BSG writing room...
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<3 bwahahahaha.
And good points, although, I can sort of buy the Cavil stuff. Sort of.
But the memories thing is a massive point. *ponders* Perhaps he still had some sort of vestige of "don't go there, because then the toys aren't real toys" or something.
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I dunno, I don't buy it. I can almost see a "toys aren't real toys"/"can't do it because they're still family"/"if I make them agree, then they're not really agreeing" sort of thing from him... but not with regards to D'Anna. She's just one Three, so I doubt Mr. Mechanical Copies would have much of a problem with altering her memories an eensy little bit, just enough to take out the incriminating part. I can see him thinking she knows the secret quick quick wipe her frakkin' brain, but not "oh hi I unboxed you, why don't we have a nice casual chat about that".
It just doesn't fit; if he had the power to make D'Anna simply forget what she'd seen, he wouldn't have any reason to stick his neck out (heh!) like he did on the Hub.
In general, his behavior in season 3 and 4.0 always struck me as that of a person trying to cover up someone else's secret, not his own. He seemed afraid of what would happen to the Cylons if the word got out, not to himself... reuniting the Cylons seemed much more important to him than keeping D'Anna in the box (just as unity and consensus was so important that he allowed the Three to bluff him on nuking the Temple of Five), and that's why he was willing to risk the latter to get the former.
I think it's pretty obvious that his role as Mwa Ha Ha Villain Overlord was invented out of whole cloth during season 4.5... and like most of the ideas the writers had post-hiatus, it doesn't quite match up with what came before. :P
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The only thing D'Anna had done so far was to claim to have seen the Five. Cavil could have written the memory over with some vaguely meaningful dream or something (an Opera House, perhaps?), and I doubt anyone would have questioned it, as they all ran off to find a nebula shaped like a pair of mating eagles or whatever. Or he could have picked five humans at random...
I also get the impression that the humanoids had evolved past the point where reprogramming was going to work. Their "don't think or talk about the Five" inhibition had already failed.
I guess I could see that, but the simpler explanation is that this is something else which doesn't match with the idea that Cavil was supposed to have been able to manipulate memories. Especially since he bragged that his memory-retrieving abilities had only increased since the early days, during No Exit...
Of course, we're all missing the obvious, here, as we argue very seriously over canon when it's quite obvious that
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Actually, that's a good point, about his memory-manipulating things. But, seriously, it's not like the Cylon plan ever made any sense, anyway.