that's what you get for waking up in Vegas

[lyssie]

1. The worst thing about having a Katy Perry song running through your head is not having actually heard it for at least two weeks. wtf, brain. Also, I think Waking up in Vegas is at least better than Leaving Las Vegas, but neither song is exactly what I want bouncing through my brains.

2. One of the weirder things about being on the outskirts of Torchwood fandom is coming across statements like "Gwen gets people killed and doesn't care". I find that a baffling sentiment. It took me a while to even come up with a time Gwen got someone killed, and the only one is inadvertently setting the sex monster free in 'Day One'. Really? Gwen caused all that, all on her lonesome? Oh, wait. Owen was being an asshole. Hrm. Shared blame, then.

3. It's odd, because Owen's assholism slowly dissipates (or he grew on me like mold, I'm never sure which), but it reminds me of Connor on Painkiller Jane who by episode three was only being an asshole to see what awesome way Jane or Mo' would slap his stupid ass down. Sigh. (it still makes me sad that PKJ didn't have more Mo' and Jane as buddycops, because they were excellent at it. But that wasn't the focus)

4. Speaking of being on the outskirts of a fandom. Eureka. There was... I think it was on fanficrants, but there was a rant about there not being enough non-slash in the fic area of the fandom. In the comments were people saying they had to slash Jack with Nathan because the women were so mean to him.

...

Uh-huh. Mean to him. But Nathan wasn't. Or was an acknowledged asshole. Or something that apparently made that ok.

This just in? Being an assertive woman and speaking up when your boss/subordinate/guy you're talking to is stupid? Makes you a meanie poo-poo head. Apparently. But if you've got a penis, you're all good.

5. There is apparently also Eva/Henry. ... Was there Beverly/Henry, too?

6. Excuse me, I'm having a moment remembering Jo and Zane breaking the bank in Vegas.

7. So, one thing that is starting to o.O me is when people apologize for leaving a long comment. Like they should be penalized for making someone use their brains and read. O.o wtf, people. Long comments are AWESOME.

8. I have season one of Torchwood to load onto Ianto today. It should be interesting. (Torchwood is also a great excuse for not having to listen to a delusional co-worker tell you about Obama's Death Panels and how they'll stop giving medical care to the elderly if this thing passes)

Comments

[stealth-rose.livejournal.com]

Everyone treats Jack badly, pretty much. Jo's kind of wised up (there's some OMG you have my job resentment still there, but hell, that's justified), but everyone else kinda looks at him like he's grown a third eye whenever he says something intelligent (which happens, actually, fairly frequently).

Everyone. Even Henry has reduced expectations of him.

Well maybe whats-his-face, the Cafe Diem owner, doesn't. But just about everyone else (and definitely all the mains) kind of treat him like he should be walking around with a crash helmet on and be praised for tying his shoes.

Nathan, at least, had open hostility and owned up to it. And there's a lot of folks who either like the hate!sex, or think the hatred is a shield for OMGTRULURVE. I always just kinda thought Nathan hated him, and made no bones about it. Understandable, when they were rivals.

Um. Not that I've thought a lot about it or anything.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

o.O

I've recently marathoned 2 and 3.0, and I honestly did not get that impression from the show.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

After her first two singles, it's just so... so bland. sigh.

I read fandomsecrets and fanficrants when I'm bored. Inevitably, Gwen being an evil scum-sucking hoe-bag comes up. =D

[scarfman]

Though I joined torchwood_fic after CoE because I thought I might want to post there, the extent of my exposure to Torchwood fandom is pretty much what shows up on the secrets communities, where I occasionally comment that 'ship wars over Jack 'ships don't understand the character. I do gather there's a lot of Gwen hate. At least there are lots of secrets that either hate her or complain about all the hate.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I'm not even entirely sure the hate is that massive as opposed to there being a vocal minority that lots of other people are afraid to disagree with.

[scarfman]

Yeah, isn't that always the way with these things.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I imagine there's a large contingent that really doesn't care either way, but they see no point in defending Gwen or shouting people down (and similarly, see no point in defending Ianto, though I'm not actually sure there IS Ianto-bashing).

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

I'm on the very outskirts of Torchwood fandom as well, and don't really understand all the Gwen hate. Gwen gets people killed and doesn't care? *scratches head*

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

And also suffers no consequences for her actions. That was one of the other things I saw. (really? Have they managed to forget End of Days?)

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

Someone did a parody journal of a Gwen-hater - at least I *hope* it was a parody. I'll see if I can find it.

So, one thing that is starting to o.O me is when people apologize for leaving a long comment. Like they should be penalized for making someone use their brains and read. O.o wtf, people. Long comments are AWESOME.

I know! I guess people feel self-conscious about getting worked up about stuff, but hey, I adore long comments.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

O.o. heheh. Hopefully. Otherwise. *shudder*

Even worse when it's on comments that are, at the most, four paragraphs of maybe two sentences apiece!

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I know. It's one of the things that baffles me. (or makes me throw my hands in the air)

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

What kills me is that the Gwen hatred all seems to come from Jack/Ianto shippers who feel she's getting in the way. This confuses me because, clearly, she's not:) Gwen's married to someone else and Jack/Ianto had a really great run. So...yeah...that never made any sense to me.

And I like Eureka but I'm not even remotely involved in the fandom and now I'm kinda happy about that. Eureka has a lot of awesome female characters and I can't remember any of them being 'mean' to Jack. What, like because they call him on his crap or choose to save the day on their own instead of waiting for him to ride to the rescue? Well, I guess you could call that 'mean' if you have no understanding of the English language.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I would say a fair amount comes from them (and COE backlash), but honestly? I've seen Gwen/Jack or Gwen/Rhys or Tosh/Owen or non-shippers who hated her simply for breathing.

Hating Gwen was actually a pre-requisite for joining Torchwood fandom in the beginning as far as I could tell (I had at least four people tell me I would loathe her... and I spent the entire first season waiting to loathe her and never found a point where I did)

Yeah, the only bits of Eureka fandom I'm generally involved with are the fringes, and the eurekathon. I'm ridiculously lax in my watching--I only managed to watch season 2 in May, and season three a few weeks ago. 3.5 I keep forgetting about.

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

Seriously? People who ship Gwen with other characters don't like her? How does that work?!

I loved Eureka in the first season, kinda liked it in season 2, and now I only watch for Jo and Zoe. It's still funny but I'm just not invested.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

The same way Sam/Jack fans in Stargate fandom say things like "Sam should be raped for dating Pete and cheating on Jack" and not seeing their rampantly ridiculous irony. (the quote is paraphrased from a conversation on the notoriously shitty Sam/Jack list on yahoo back in '05 or '06)

ie, Gwen is their personal insert character to have sex with the chosen character they want.

Aw. I love almost all of Eureka's characters, but I've got a thing for women who talk science and shows with characters who aren't all white.

[ellestra.livejournal.com]

I noticed that when people dislike a character because s/he doesn't fit their vision of who should get more time, or could disrupt their OTP or some other inane reason like that, they don't admit it's because any of those reasons. They just find some stupid, ridiculous excuses to call her/him stupid, useless and boring. Female characters get extra level of this for any show with strong slash community following. My rule of character popularity in fandom. This is also true for ships.

Funny thing is the hated ones are usually the character I like. So it's also my rule about interesting characters - fandom hate = worth checking.

I like Gwen. I liked both Jack and Nathan with Allison. I even liked Jack with the laundry chemist. And Jo and Zane are love. And no one was meaner to Jack then Nathan, especially at the beginning.


not having to listen to a delusional co-worker tell you about Obama's Death Panels and how they'll stop giving medical care to the elderly if this thing passes
I don't get those people and their misgivings but I admit I don't understand US health system. From what I can understand - even if you are insured they can refuse to pay for your treatment whenever they like and then you end up in debt for the rest of your life or just end up dead. This really discourages me from coming to US for post-doc - what if I get sick there? I rather stay in Europe when we all have socialist health care and can't be refused treatment because it's a pre-existing condition. I was alive before I was insured - everything is pre-existing. And from experience - they don't let old people die on socialist medical care - they keep you alive no matter what. Letting people chose death is very unsocialist. Anyway I though this health care reform won't change much for old people - they already have some universal medical care system, don't they?

[miera-c.livejournal.com]

This really discourages me from coming to US for post-doc - what if I get sick there?

If you're a student, you will enroll in your school's health plan (it's required, unless you prove you have other coverage). It will cost you some. If you're weighing US schools you may want to ask someone how their health services are - do they have a pharmacy on campus that students can go to? What hours are they open? Etc. Some of the most comprehensive, uncluttered health care I ever got was through a campus health center.

[ellestra.livejournal.com]

I think post-doc is work. Just in a school. I think?

I was just being hypothetical. I'm sure it would somehow work out if I actually go there. It does for many people. But thanks.

It's just that the whole concept of health plan is completely alien to me. If I'm insured in the national health system and go to a doctor/hospital the procedure will be paid for and I will never even know how much it cost.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

To be fair, as I said above, while some of the Gwen hate certainly comes from the slashers, some of it also comes from many other corners of the fandom.

(I've been told Gwen is badly written more than once. o, rly? a person written as a real person is badly written?)

I adored the laundry chemist, actually. I was sad that she never returned after season 2.

I... I do not know about student insurance and medical care, sadly.

[ellestra.livejournal.com]

To be fair, as I said above, while some of the Gwen hate certainly comes from the slashers, some of it also comes from many other corners of the fandom.
I didn't mean all the hate is from slashers. Just that they make female characters even more hated. I just mean that the reasons given for the hate are usually inane and fake and that's why they are so WTF?

And as for medical care - it's just that to someone like me coming from universal healthcare system the insurance companies seem like "Death Panels" :P

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I would love universal health care. It will never happen in America.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Don't you know that everything bad in Torchwood is Gwen's fault? Her and her vagina. (I would bitch further about fandom, but I don't know how much you've seen.)

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I've seen a lot. Enough to wonder if these people noticed how NONE OF THE TEAM is exempt from being a complete idiot and waste of space on more than one occasion--but of course, that doesn't matter because x, y and z (I saw someone argue that Gwen accidentally releasing that orgasm alien was her being responsible for all the deaths, but that because Ianto was trying to help Lisa, the two people she killed weren't his fault AT ALL)

Also, everyone loves going on about how Gwen is the Moral Center, blah, blah, BUT, having just listened to the entirety of season one? That isn't what Jack's saying at all. Yeah, he says something really clunky about her reminding them of humanity in the first episode, but after that? He just wants her to keep a real life on top of her job, which is something none of the others seems able to manage.

So, feel free to bitch more. (I probably will at some point, because the obtuseness of the fandom just makes me O.O a lot)