lyssie | Kevin G. says we didn't like the BSG finale because it made us think

greycoupon linked me to this, and I'm stealing her quotes and everything. And cut-tagging, for spoilers.

ScriptPhD.com interviews Kevin Grazier

ScriptPhD.com interviews Kevin Grazier
SPhD: We had talked a little earlier about some controversy regarding the science content of the finale, with some unfortunate, and rather pugnacious, internet attacks against you personally. I would like to offer you ScriptPhD.com as a forum to address some of these attacks and set the record straight. Go for it!

KG: Okay. There is a saying in Hollywood, “If you make people think they’ve thought they’ll love you, if you make them really think, they’ll hate you.” And I think that’s nowhere better seen than the end of the storyline with Kara [Thrace, “Starbuck”]. Kara, as you know, just literally vanished, and people were upset and saying “Well, we don’t know the end of her story.” Do we know the end of her story any better or worse than we do Lee [Adama]’s? Do we know that Lee didn’t get bit by a tse tse fly or some kind of biting insect and die of some kind of disease two days later? No, we don’t! We don’t know any of those stories. We know that one person’s lineage survived, well arguably three. We know Athena, Helo and Hera’s line survived to some extent. And we also know that various human religions and literature are full of supernatural or spiritual characters who took corporeal form to perform a task or “set things right”, only to disappear after: Jesus Christ, Vishnu, Obi-Wan Kenobi (I mean really, was he there in “Star Wars” or a projection of the Force?). So, we don’t know their [projected] stories, but people hated that. They were so angry. And of course, one group of people guaranteed to hate that were the shippers. Do you know who shippers are?

SPhD: I am WELL aware of the shippers.

KG: Yeah, they’re the Lee/Kara shippers–they’re all about the “ship”, the relationship– and there was the Sam/Kara shippers, and instead of one group being able to go “Na na na na, [our relationship won]”, instead they were both furious! When Ron made you think—because it was Ron’s story—when there’s ambiguity, people get all angry! I couldn’t believe that. I thought—OK, let me say this upfront, I thought the ending was fantastic. I am totally on board with the ending. I loved it. But it kind of goes to show you how quickly people are willing to nitpick and to be really, vehemently, furiously upset and to go off.

....

So. Rundown.

We didn't like it because we just didn't get it (it was Art, you know, and it Made Us Think).

We were furious. Which, well, yeah. I was furious that it basically ended WITH EVERY SINGLE FEMALE CHARACTER WHO SURVIVED THE MINI-SERIES BEING DEAD WHILE ALL THE MEN WERE STILL ALIVE, YOU ASSHOLE.

My anger NEVER had to do with the Kara poof (I actually loved it), though I hated Sam's lack of plotline.

And. And. There are people who have ripped to shreds his evolutionary bull-shit.

HEY KEVIN. Maybe you should stick to physics, BECAUSE BIOLOGY DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

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I hated it because it was vastly stupid and nonsensical.

But nice of him to attribute the bulk of the pushback to silly hysterical women whinging about romance, because you know girls don't like scifi except the occasional mushy parts. *eyeroll*

obvsly. That's why we, y'know, play with science and gadgets and want to bang Rodney McKay. (wait...)

There were so many reasons to hate the finale that I don't think anything ship-related even made it into my top ten. (Actually, since I'd long since given up any hope of my OTP getting an HEA, probably not even the top fifteen.)

But I have girlparts and therefore don't care about things like doing research so you get the science right. Or having characters remain in character. Or not allowing any human woman to have a happy ending. Or not killing off a suspiciously large number of female characters. Or not idiotically flinging the fleet into the sun (or at the very least not having everyone turn into a podperson who thinks that's a good idea). And then there was the part where nothing the remnants of humanity endured ended up mattering at all.

Or...I could go on. Believe me, I could go on. But I'm just a silly girl. *giggles and tosses hair*

Would you like pink nail polish?

Sigh. It's ridiculous that he just reduces it like that. Possibly, I need a t-shirt of some sort to wear around DC.

Which is funny since I think the only way to enjoy the finale is to not think about it too hard.

Agreed. And I'm not even talking about the Kara-vanishing part (which I actually kinda loved). I'm more concerned about the whole 'technology sucks so let's get rid of this silly, life-saving junk and live off the land. We'll all die horrible deaths but at least we won't have to worry about those evil!robots again'

Except that now there are robots again and we are ALL DOOMED! *facepalm*

YES. And, to be fair, I'm A-OK with that. I like nonsensical explosions and over-wrought narratives.

Actually, I saw it as Sam and Kara riding off into the sunset together.

What I hated was a technological society dumping everything en mass and going off to live one with nature. Do any of you even know what kinds of exotic diseases parts of Africa harbors in it's soil and water? I do, and it's a scary thing. Oh, and no doctors either! And just because it looks terracompatible, doesn't mean all of the bugs and biology are the same. So, let's drop everything, because it's so much better to let our children grow up in disease and ignorance.

Oh yes, and in case the race ever got spaceworthy again, let's not help them by dumping all of the ancient star drives into the sun! Take that descendants!

Yeah, the finale made me think alright, but it make me think terrible things about how trite it was.

I only have a vague clue about the diseases, BUT YES on the medical stuff, because that is so pointless. And I don't think it could have been that bleak. There would be some things they couldn't make, but they could at least pass down the knowledge.

Hmm. Made me think "what the hell did I just see?" and I'm not even a shipper.

BWAHAHAH.

(deleted comment)

*giggles*

Their definition of ambiguity is...not consistent with Earth logic? I mean, I kind of think that being told that "God did it all" and that science and technology are evil is over the top preachy, offensive, and not ambiguous at all. In fact? The main reason I hate the finale, as far as themes and narrative flow go, is precisely because I think the finale removed all of the layers of ambiguity and tried to give you one way to think about it? Gah. And the ending wasn't as open-ended as they think it was. Like, I'm entirely sure all of them die of horrible diseases within a year? Which they sort of deserve for shunning science and technology? ;)

I...should probably look up who Kevin Grazier is.

Exactly.

I was planning to do a comparison between BSG and TSCC endings and why I think the second is better and these are my most important gripes with BSG. Soon maybe. Today I'm celebrating Moon landings anniversary and don't want to spoil my science glee.

He is the science adviser for Syfylis. I don't think he understands science outside of physics. And maybe not even then.

Ooops, I guess we posted at the same time.

I love how Grazier's managed to unite the fandom in total disgust.

It is ok. Everyone needs to see his idiocy. =D

hah. It made us think...geez, this is really a bunch of garbage I've been watching here lately. It makes little sense and it's kinda insulting on a number of levels.

...what? that was just me? All righty then.

I hate that he implies that the only reason someone can dislike the ending is either because they were shipper and didn't get what they want so is sulking. Or didn't get it and the science behind it so is stupid.

Both are condescending and offensive. Very Goodkind, and just like him, makes me want to hit you Kevin.

Especially since Kevin is not all that good with science himself. Apparently in real world it's hard to be Baltar - expert in each and every field of science. Kevin might be good at physics and engineering but they should have a separate biology expert (you know some would do that just for set visit).

HEY KEVIN. Maybe you should stick to physics, BECAUSE BIOLOGY DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

This. THIS.

I'm very forgiving to sf shows, especially if I like them, I'm still in denial about alien species mating in Frascape for example. But saying that we are not allowed to judge bad science because it was oversimplified for tv is ridiculous. People turned out not to be as stupid as you thought? And that explanation may work for the ending but what about Roslin cured by magic blood or that thing with cylon virus that was so horribly wrong I erased it from memory.

I wonder what he would say if I said that since swinging around gravity well can make objects go faster then my swing drive can power spaceships. I simplified it for comment. If you make mistakes that people with rudimentary knowledge can spot don't call them too stupid to understand your grand idea.

Kevin G. says we didn't like the BSG finale because it made us think

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