Quick BSG meta thingie

[lyssie]

Contains spoilers for the finale, natch.

Someone (I am too lazy to go see their lj handle, sorry--also, trying to do this before leaving for work) pointed out that none of the human women in the show survived the finale... So I did some thinking on that, and... idk.

Of the female characters who survived the mini-series, only Caprica is still alive (and I'm not even sure we can count her, since, technically, she hadn't resurrected at that point). And head!Six closes us out, so she may count.

Kara Thrace
Laura Roslin
Cally Henderson
Anastasia Dualla
Sharon 'Boomer' Valerii
Caprica Six
Head!Six
Elosha

Elosha died of booby-trap on Kobol, Kara and Dee committed suicide, Boomer was suicide-by-cop, Cally was airlocked and Laura has been dying of cancer the entire series. (Athena was introduced in season one)

So, do the men fare as badly?

William Adama
Lee Adama
Tigh
Tyrol
Gaeta
Cap'n Kelly
Billy K.
Leoben
Gaius Baltar.
Jammer
Doral
Helo

Gaeta is shot by a firing squad
Jammer is airlocked
Doral is arguably blown up
Billy K. was shot and died a hero.

There are others, of course, reporters and etc. The flight crew from Colonial One who were never heard from again.... But of the characters who had some sort of impact on episodes?

If you were a woman, there's a big chance you killed yourself. If you were a man, there's an even greater chance you're still breathing.

Comments

[havocthecat]

If you were a woman, there's a big chance you killed yourself. If you were a man, there's an even greater chance you're still breathing.

Hey, look. It's why I couldn't keep watching BSG. Funny, that. (I get that people still love the show. I just couldn't keep watching.)

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I honestly hadn't realized it was quite that bad. And it's sort of stunningly disturbing.

[nicole-anell.livejournal.com]

One of the more disappointing things about the finale, definitely. I can't really justify the fact that our two strongest female heroes, Roslin and Kara, got the SAME EXACT FATE and their men made it. And I think you could fairly argue that not a single one of the female characters introduced in the mini survived to the end, since Caprica-Six didn't really become a character until season two -- at the very least, I think her and HeadSix should only count as one in this case.

P.S. If you need another reason to be bitter about Dualla's suicide, imagine her as Admiral instead of Hoshi.

P.P.S. Don't forget Elosha. (Not as important as the other women mentioned, but definitely as important as some of the men.)

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

P.S. If you need another reason to be bitter about Dualla's suicide, imagine her as Admiral instead of Hoshi.

*Allie SMASH*

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I need to type fic instead, but I have notes about a four-season version of this, complete with deaths and etc. And Elosha was on the list already

AND ADMIRAL DUALLA YES.

eta: Elosha was on my "joined in season one" list. I FAIL. She has been moved. (that makes it almost worse, god-damn)

[cujoy.livejournal.com]

And just to rub more salt in it... Cally was murdered while staging a suicide. So add her to the suicide list.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I know. But it was also murder.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Well. We assume they're alive.... ;]

I have a much longer list, the notes are all done up, but plot krakens come first.

[tnhand1022.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I never noticed. Odd for me, since I'm always bitching about the exact same issue on LOST.

I can't get up in arms about Roslin since her fate was sealed years ago. And while I think Starbuck's journey was sidelined and poorly plotted, I'm comfortable with her fate as a messianic figure.

The more I think about it, the more I think that human women were more expendable than cylon women. The Sixes and the Eights were essential to the survival of both races. So I don't think women in general got the shaft, just the human ones. ;)

IDK either. Much food for thought. Moore & Eick may have created a 'verse in which gender bias does not exist, but it certainly exists here, and the show reflect that.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

You weren't around for the beginning of season four and my constant "KILL SOME MEN, RON" rants.

It still really doesn't solve the fact that every major male character survived to the end while the women are all dead (except for one).

[fahrbotdrusilla]

wow, that's depressing :(

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

It.... sort of makes me want to punch something.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've seen this around, and I just can't get over the fact that every female character from the beginning died except Caprica, and every single man in the main credits survived.

And the only three women whose names we know who made it are Ellen, Athena, and Caprica. (Seelix maybe also, but they don't show her.) All of them are in relationships in which they've gotten the shaft in comparison to the men in the relationship. That kind of makes it look like they got to live so the men could get their happy ending.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

It's scary. And depressing.

And your second paragraph makes me want to punch someone even more.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

::delurking::

Seeing it all lined up that way is really, really depressing. I can has AU fix-it fic nao?

::re-lurks::

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Yes. Trucco's quote in the recent tv guide interview has broken my brains.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Link? I'd like to read that.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Ah, here. I just typed it up because I'm a bit ranty and annoyed that I have a massive AU in my head now. http://lyssie.livejournal.com/1449636.html

[prozacpark.livejournal.com]

This is, unfortunately, not surprising at all. I was sort of way sadder when I realized Buffy, of all things, had this sameish problem. Now I expect this kind of stuff, which is depressing in itself. And it's usually subtle enough that most people miss it, and then you have things like Dee and Tory, where I want to scream at people for missing it.

It's...not even that they die, but *how* they die. And male deaths tend to be different from female deaths in very specific ways.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

eah. Right at the moment, I'm not making any sort of judgments. But I am sort of interested in other shows with predominantly male storylines--do the men in those die, too, or is it still the women?

[prozacpark.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Even without passing judgements, I find the differences between the male and the female deaths interesting. The analysis is revealing in itself.

As to the second point, meh, I haven't watched a predominantly male-focused show in ages. I'm pretty sure "Angel" was the last, and I'm still bitter about how Cordelia and Fred died: the same way, both of them losing complete agency to entities inhabiting their bodies.

And you said TV shows, but we can probably look at comics as a predominantly male focused genre, and well. There's also "Supernatural."

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Mostly, I'm thinking of shows that have already ended and have the sort of 'high mortality rate' that BSG does, in terms of 'people die, it happens' so to speak.

(Blake's 7 and Farscape are much better than BSG, Star Treks tend to be bloodless, etc. I might have to look at something more in the drama category)

[emmiere.livejournal.com]

Ah....well...hmmm...

Not that surprising really since I've seen this elsewhere too, but you have my apologies for ever going It can't be THAT bad.

Uh, yeah.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Hah. I didn't think it was this bad, and I was even saying, "but they affected the plot..." except so did the men, and they're all alive.

[pennyfeline.livejournal.com]

Here via galacticanews. Hi!

I didn't bother making lists or even thinking any more about this particular issue, but after reading this I can't help but be shocked about the gender question here

If you were a woman, there's a big chance you killed yourself. If you were a man, there's an even greater chance you're still breathing.

It's scary how true that is. Add Kat to the list, who also killed herself, add Cally who planned to kill herself and keep in mind that Boomer pretty much knew she would die and was prepared to die when she gave Hera back to Sharon.

And the real sad thing is that even Laura actually killed herself by giving up on her treatments. If we had heard about an awful prognosis beforehand, it would have been an understandable decision, but the way it was portrayed she had a good chance of surviving.

So yeah, basically all female characters (minus CapricaSix) did kill themselves or had an intention to do so. Shocking.

[pennyfeline.livejournal.com]

P.S.: Add D'anna to the list - SUICIDE! *facepalm*

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Hi! Heh. I have an inveterate need to do it, when I start thinking about things like this. It... makes me happy? Or sad. Eh.

This was simply the list of "who was in the mini" and it was mostly off the top of my head (and didn't, say, include people who died during it to give other people added angst, like the little girl...)

but the way it was portrayed she had a good chance of surviving.

That was something I was trying to remember. And all the more galling! Gah.

[sabaceanbabe.livejournal.com]

Wow. I... have no words. :(

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I just... I wanted to not think about it like this, but it's depressing.

[run-atreyu.livejournal.com]

I hadn't seen this when I posted this (http://community.livejournal.com/beyond_insane/930025.html) yesterday and I'm glad someone linked me to this entry because I figured other people must have noticed.

It is so thoroughly depressing.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love your post. I sort of want to run all over the comments, replying, but, uh, you and others have, as well.

And I plan on a much longer list, including people like Paulla (she took over from Gaius for a short time) and Gina. And a whole lot of others. Because I think a loooooot of women committed suicide. But off the top of my head? Only Duck killed himself, for the boys--and his was a suicide bombing that had a purpose. (he's also weighted on the opposite side as the next bomber was a woman)

I've just gotten thoroughly distracted by fic.

[run-atreyu.livejournal.com]

I'm enjoying the comments - I'd expected the usual response any kind of feminism or uncomfortable criticism draws, but it's been really good.

[run-atreyu.livejournal.com]

I'm enjoying the comments - I'd expected the usual response any kind of feminism or uncomfortable criticism draws, but it's been really good.

[run-atreyu.livejournal.com]

I'm enjoying the comments - I'd expected the usual response any kind of feminism or uncomfortable criticism draws, but it's been really good.

I think it'd be awesome to use info from people's lists to create a more complete list. siljamus also has one here (http://siljamus.livejournal.com/113491.html) that I was linked to in my post.

And yes, I remembered Paulla earlier. The various Sixes create something of a quandary, as do the women who've died and come back, but thus is the nature of the show.

I've just gotten thoroughly distracted by fic.

There are worse things ;-)

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Fandom is... weird, sometimes. And I think this time, there's enough that it's very very obvious.

(if you comment at the list, could you let her know that Caprica's been killed twice? Doral shot her so Gaius would sign the death warrants in Precipice)

Cylons make it a bit problematic--until season four, you couldn't keep them dead forever (not even Ellen)--but they're still shot and beaten and killed. sigh. I might end up with a list longer than I'd like.

[scalderwood.livejournal.com]

Well, well noted.