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*puts on wacko 'shipper hat*
Ahem. This post is going to probably have random snark, as well as, y'know, some mockery of. Things. It also will contain a few things I've learned about from the long-version of Unfinished Business. And possibly even some meta.
So, last night,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
prolix_allie slapped some sense into me in regards the Kara and Sam timeline, and now I have thinky thoughts. Before I get to them, a bit of mockery, though.
1. Sex. It's supposed to be messy and fun and orgasmic and when you're done, you're all sweaty and stuff, yes? Yes.
When Kara has sex with Sam, he (especially) is sweaty and pleased with himself and generally exhausted. Kara is obviously happy and sweaty. And the sex itself is the "ohgodyesnowplease" kind, with bracing against the rack above them while Sam's got his arm behind him, and-- (why, no, I haven't watched that scene a lot, just for reference).
When Kara has sex with Lee, it's... Quiet. Subdued. Pristine, except for the grass. I'm pretty sure she didn't break a sweat, at all. It seemed pretty effortless. Lee put his penis in, and wham, Kara had an orgasm.
So, who's the human vibrator, again?
My roommate, btw, says she doesn't think Lee would bother to waste energy vibrating.
2. Speaking of sex, in Unfinished Business, I always figured Sam could smell the sex on her when she proposed. I never really thought about the fact that they have sex and then Kara goes to the dance.
Either Sam is wearing a condom, or Kara's gonna be... not so comfy, after a while. Maybe that's the real reason she's such a bitch to Hot Dog?
And people complain about fan-written porn being not-so-realistic. Tsk.
3. On to the meta.
Apparently, Lee turned down Kara's request for married quarters.
...
Yes. Kara requested married quarters.
Which means, by UB, she and Sam weren't just frakking--she was seriously considering trying to make their marriage work. And Sam, despite walking away, would probably have said yes to moving back to the Galactica. With proximity in effect, and the chance to see each other every day--even if only for a few minutes. With being able to wake up and fall asleep together. With those hundred and one little seconds in the day where Kara knew she had Sam to come back to, and he knew the same, I somehow doubt their marriage would have fractured further.
Either they would have gotten a full divorce, or they would have gone back to something more stable.
I don't know if Sam knew about the married quarters. I'm betting he didn't (and still doesn't?), because Kara wouldn't see the point in telling him. She's not going to beg, after all.
Presenting him a fait accompli is more her style.
It's funny. In season two, people kept saying that Sam was created just to keep Kara and Lee apart, yet in season three, Lee's sole purpose seems to be doing exactly that.
Yes, Sam could have stayed on the Galactica, but what would he have done? He's not a military guy, he's not going to be a Refugee and sit in Dogtown twiddling his thumbs. Odds are, the ship he's on is a place where he's needed, where he can accomplish something.
Sam isn't just going to be Starbuck's Husband. That's not an occupation, that's a death sentence for their marriage. He won't do nothing anymore than Kara would sit around and do nothing, if their situations were reversed.
Also, and this is based on Allie's smacking of me (post your meta, woman), I think Kara told Sam about Leoben before UB. I think it was over and done with after Measure of Salvation (there's a deleted scene, or should have been, of Kara confronting Leoben). Whether they talked about Leoben the first time they saw each other after Collaborators, or at another point in time, we don't know (there's a lot we don't know about how their relationship progressed, but we know they talked again, we know they were having sex--on the Galactica, and she might have visited his ship, if there was some private place there, which there might not have been).
I imagine their first conversation, and even the subsequant ones were hard. At this point, Sam knows she can hurt him, and Kara assumes he doesn't really want her--
But they can have sex, because they don't have to talk, then.
Unfortunately, that leads to Sam pretty much figuring that's all she wants him for--and Kara isn't going to correct him outright, because Kara doesn't beg, and if he's going to be an asshole about it, frak him.
So by UB, they're stuck.
In the extended version of the opening Kara and Sam scene, Kara asks when he has to be back, and Sam immediately takes it as her getting rid of him now she's had her (very athletic, orgasmic) fun. Kara retreats, and Sam realizes too late and tries to go on the offensive to get through to her--
He says he's been patient, and he wants their marriage back, and Kara retreats even further. She's not going to beg him.
And then Sam says something stupid, something he's worried about since she first started frakking him and kicking him out. He guesses that he isn't the one she wants.
Sidenote: Kara is guilty over Lee, suddenly, and thus, he's on her brain.
Sam's question just shoves Kara even further into her guilt, and she'll be damned if she gives Sam an inch.
Sam realizes after she's gone that he's just an idiot. He also is just as scared of her hurting him as she is the other way round. And maybe he doesn't think he deserves her, if he can be such a bastard to her.
After UB, of course, Sam has confirmation of his suspicions.
And Sam gets angry. I think he gets angry because of the confirmation, and because, after UB, he and Kara don't speak--he says in EoJ "takes a crisis to get us in the same room together". Whatever Kara's been doing since the boxing match, it isn't talking to her husband. I don't think it's telling Lee her deep and dirty secrets, either.
He nearly loses her to the Cylons and suddenly, he doesn't care. He'll take what he can get.
We all know how things go from there. He tells her loves her and she should go to Lee if that's what she wants. He's willing to let her go rather than hold her in a relationship she doesn't want.
Kara checks with Lee, who pulls a "I don't think you really want me" moment. It's similar to the one Sam pulled a while back, actually. (in UB)
The funny thing is, if Lee had said, "yes", Kara would probably have left Sam for him. Instead, he just confirms what she's always probably thought: that he doesn't really want her, and it was only the thrill of betraying his vows that did it (Kara dove into their flirtation for the same reason, I suspect).
Meanwhile, Kara goes back to Sam. And they go back to the pattern of UB--sex and talking, but only when they can both get a moment off. It's a holding pattern, and while Kara seems mostly ok with it, Sam is chafing and frustrated by it.
See back up there, my comment about how there are all sorts of little things they'd get, if they were on the same ship. Sleeping in the same bed, showering in the same head...
By Maelstrom Sam wants more, if he can have it. If Kara will just step away from her safe zone and spend a few days with him he'd be happy. But she turns him down, and he leaves, still slightly cranky.
Also, Kara is now having dreams about Leoben.... (oh, canon, you have no decent character through-line without wanking)
And then Kara dies.
Cue Sam drinking and falling and grieving like mad for her. Cue Sam sleeping with Tory, and possibly others. Cue Sam finding out he's a Cylon.
Oh, Kara. I'm not sure you're gonna like what you come back to.
So, last night,
prolix_allie slapped some sense into me in regards the Kara and Sam timeline, and now I have thinky thoughts. Before I get to them, a bit of mockery, though.1. Sex. It's supposed to be messy and fun and orgasmic and when you're done, you're all sweaty and stuff, yes? Yes.
When Kara has sex with Sam, he (especially) is sweaty and pleased with himself and generally exhausted. Kara is obviously happy and sweaty. And the sex itself is the "ohgodyesnowplease" kind, with bracing against the rack above them while Sam's got his arm behind him, and-- (why, no, I haven't watched that scene a lot, just for reference).
When Kara has sex with Lee, it's... Quiet. Subdued. Pristine, except for the grass. I'm pretty sure she didn't break a sweat, at all. It seemed pretty effortless. Lee put his penis in, and wham, Kara had an orgasm.
So, who's the human vibrator, again?
My roommate, btw, says she doesn't think Lee would bother to waste energy vibrating.
2. Speaking of sex, in Unfinished Business, I always figured Sam could smell the sex on her when she proposed. I never really thought about the fact that they have sex and then Kara goes to the dance.
Either Sam is wearing a condom, or Kara's gonna be... not so comfy, after a while. Maybe that's the real reason she's such a bitch to Hot Dog?
And people complain about fan-written porn being not-so-realistic. Tsk.
3. On to the meta.
Apparently, Lee turned down Kara's request for married quarters.
...
Yes. Kara requested married quarters.
Which means, by UB, she and Sam weren't just frakking--she was seriously considering trying to make their marriage work. And Sam, despite walking away, would probably have said yes to moving back to the Galactica. With proximity in effect, and the chance to see each other every day--even if only for a few minutes. With being able to wake up and fall asleep together. With those hundred and one little seconds in the day where Kara knew she had Sam to come back to, and he knew the same, I somehow doubt their marriage would have fractured further.
Either they would have gotten a full divorce, or they would have gone back to something more stable.
I don't know if Sam knew about the married quarters. I'm betting he didn't (and still doesn't?), because Kara wouldn't see the point in telling him. She's not going to beg, after all.
Presenting him a fait accompli is more her style.
It's funny. In season two, people kept saying that Sam was created just to keep Kara and Lee apart, yet in season three, Lee's sole purpose seems to be doing exactly that.
Yes, Sam could have stayed on the Galactica, but what would he have done? He's not a military guy, he's not going to be a Refugee and sit in Dogtown twiddling his thumbs. Odds are, the ship he's on is a place where he's needed, where he can accomplish something.
Sam isn't just going to be Starbuck's Husband. That's not an occupation, that's a death sentence for their marriage. He won't do nothing anymore than Kara would sit around and do nothing, if their situations were reversed.
Also, and this is based on Allie's smacking of me (post your meta, woman), I think Kara told Sam about Leoben before UB. I think it was over and done with after Measure of Salvation (there's a deleted scene, or should have been, of Kara confronting Leoben). Whether they talked about Leoben the first time they saw each other after Collaborators, or at another point in time, we don't know (there's a lot we don't know about how their relationship progressed, but we know they talked again, we know they were having sex--on the Galactica, and she might have visited his ship, if there was some private place there, which there might not have been).
I imagine their first conversation, and even the subsequant ones were hard. At this point, Sam knows she can hurt him, and Kara assumes he doesn't really want her--
But they can have sex, because they don't have to talk, then.
Unfortunately, that leads to Sam pretty much figuring that's all she wants him for--and Kara isn't going to correct him outright, because Kara doesn't beg, and if he's going to be an asshole about it, frak him.
So by UB, they're stuck.
In the extended version of the opening Kara and Sam scene, Kara asks when he has to be back, and Sam immediately takes it as her getting rid of him now she's had her (very athletic, orgasmic) fun. Kara retreats, and Sam realizes too late and tries to go on the offensive to get through to her--
He says he's been patient, and he wants their marriage back, and Kara retreats even further. She's not going to beg him.
And then Sam says something stupid, something he's worried about since she first started frakking him and kicking him out. He guesses that he isn't the one she wants.
Sidenote: Kara is guilty over Lee, suddenly, and thus, he's on her brain.
Sam's question just shoves Kara even further into her guilt, and she'll be damned if she gives Sam an inch.
Sam realizes after she's gone that he's just an idiot. He also is just as scared of her hurting him as she is the other way round. And maybe he doesn't think he deserves her, if he can be such a bastard to her.
After UB, of course, Sam has confirmation of his suspicions.
And Sam gets angry. I think he gets angry because of the confirmation, and because, after UB, he and Kara don't speak--he says in EoJ "takes a crisis to get us in the same room together". Whatever Kara's been doing since the boxing match, it isn't talking to her husband. I don't think it's telling Lee her deep and dirty secrets, either.
He nearly loses her to the Cylons and suddenly, he doesn't care. He'll take what he can get.
We all know how things go from there. He tells her loves her and she should go to Lee if that's what she wants. He's willing to let her go rather than hold her in a relationship she doesn't want.
Kara checks with Lee, who pulls a "I don't think you really want me" moment. It's similar to the one Sam pulled a while back, actually. (in UB)
The funny thing is, if Lee had said, "yes", Kara would probably have left Sam for him. Instead, he just confirms what she's always probably thought: that he doesn't really want her, and it was only the thrill of betraying his vows that did it (Kara dove into their flirtation for the same reason, I suspect).
Meanwhile, Kara goes back to Sam. And they go back to the pattern of UB--sex and talking, but only when they can both get a moment off. It's a holding pattern, and while Kara seems mostly ok with it, Sam is chafing and frustrated by it.
See back up there, my comment about how there are all sorts of little things they'd get, if they were on the same ship. Sleeping in the same bed, showering in the same head...
By Maelstrom Sam wants more, if he can have it. If Kara will just step away from her safe zone and spend a few days with him he'd be happy. But she turns him down, and he leaves, still slightly cranky.
Also, Kara is now having dreams about Leoben.... (oh, canon, you have no decent character through-line without wanking)
And then Kara dies.
Cue Sam drinking and falling and grieving like mad for her. Cue Sam sleeping with Tory, and possibly others. Cue Sam finding out he's a Cylon.
Oh, Kara. I'm not sure you're gonna like what you come back to.
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But the difference between sex with Sam and sex with Lee made me giggle.
Because I'm all of twelve, apparently.
And I hate the idea of Kara coming back and finding out about Sam and Tory, etc., because i have this horrible feeling that they're gonna make it a dramatic unveiling or that it'll come out in an argument between Kara and Lee. Or Kara and anyone else. All because they will try to break her.
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I am five. ;]
Man. I don't think Kara's going to care--not really. But she's going to be screwed up from dying andall..
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I am cackling so hard right now, oh god. *dead*
And word on everything else...i'm so glad Allie rambled for us last night.
I'm dreading someone telling Kara about Sam and Tory out of spite, and hoping at the same time that they've realized the whole soap opera thing needs to DIE and handling it a bit better. We'll see. But honestly, I don't see how (realistically!) Kara could get bitchy over that...she was dead, Sam was grieving, AND his head was all over the place with the whole about to find out he's a cylon thing. If anybody comes out clean on the cheating front, it's Sam.
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What I would really love is for her to have the reaction
Allie rambling kinda knocked the pattern into a new shape for me. Which is weird? Eh. I don't know. My Kara and Sam are so fluid these days. Sigh.
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These things must be researched. :D
]Yes. Kara requested married quarters.
I STILL CAN'T GET OVER IT!
And I'm with you, I don't think their marriage would have fractured further if they'd been able to live together. I really can't see Kara as the sneaking around type. And - man, it just makes me so happy that she wanted the marriage to work. It makes me like her (even) more. And after UB she must have thought things were beyond repair. She makes more sense now!
I like to image Sam knew she'd requested quarters and it had been denied, though I doubt she'd have implicated Lee - awkward questions. Just because the alternative is so sad and angst-ridden. Which means, you're probably right. ;)
Kara isn't going to correct him outright, because Kara doesn't beg,
This is why I like the extended version of that scene better - it plays more like a squabble than just Kara being uber-bitch.
Sidenote: Kara is guilty over Lee, suddenly, and thus, he's on her brain.
And while this makes all kinds of sense to me in theory, this now makes four (4) times the writers have chosen to use Kara's sexual fantasies to show what's going on with her psychologically. The first time it made sense. The three after that? Not so much. Mix it up, guys.
By Maelstrom Sam wants more, if he can have it. If Kara will just step away from her safe zone and spend a few days with him he'd be happy. But she turns him down, and he leaves, still slightly cranky.
Also, how much does that suck? Sam was SO happy at the end of TaB. I think he finally relaxed and believed that he wasn't going to lose Kara to Lee. And then not too long after that, he starts to lose her to nightmares and hallucinations and how much scarier must that have been? I think that's why even though he wanted more, he switched to being Mr. No Strings.
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Sex in a rack has to be hard, especially when you're both .. energetic, and one of you is a giant.
Athletic. Orgasmic. And you like getting each other off. Yeah, it would be kinda hard, and I love that she's bracing herself and so is he, and--they had to have bruised bits, shooting that.
And after UB she must have thought things were beyond repair.
Seriously. Sam walked away from her, and he knew she liked Lee, and--Kara continues to disbelieve that she's lovable in her own right, and so she figured he just wanted her for the sex as much as he thought the same about her.
Also, I don't think married quarters would have been a magical pass to happy-land, but not being able to get away from each other would have shifted the dynamic, SO MUCH. As long as Sam had something to occupy him, he would have spent the whole time trying to convince her he wasn't going anywhere (married quarters would have meant a hell of a lot to him, I think, as it's such a sign of her still wanting him).
Which means, you're probably right. ;)
I, am always right. (and have been more so with disturbing frequency in regards BSG than I care to consider)
it plays more like a squabble
Man, I always forget that people argue (and I bet the Galactica would've been privy to some gigantic ones from them if they'd been stuck together on board), because my roommate and I generally don't...
The three after that? Not so much. Mix it up, guys.
YES. Sex is not the only place one can find enlightenment! It's kind of obnoxious and annoying, and y'know what? Needs to stop, dammit.
Unless, y'know, they're gonna forgo the psycho-analysis and just go for the porn.
Also, how much does that suck?
A LOT. Again, married quarters, dammit! Although, I suspect by then that Kara thought she was as comfy as she needed to be, and frak Sam's need to have her closer.
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And y'know, I was thinking (k', total fanwanking, but that's what I DO), that it's being with Sam post TAB, finally making a damn choice, that unleashes Kara's inner Leoben. Because (a) she's still got that frakkin destiny thing hanging over her head, (b) she and Sam TALK about Leoben and the destiny thing bringing it to mind, (c) she just sort of papered over what happened to her on NC anyway, and (d) (maybe) it's part of Sam's Final Five-ness at work. Also, because once she resolves things with Lee and is resolving things with Sam, then (and only then) can she resolve things emotionally with the people who fucked her over worse: Leoben and her mother. So she starts to fall apart a little, and Sam's too burned so he's careful about pushing (and Lee's not careful enough).
I suspect Kara's going to be too busy at first trying to figure out why everyone thinks she's dead and whether she's a Cylon to worry about who Sam was frakking while she was gone for a few hours. It would be great if someone tries to get her mad about that and she can say, "He never took off my dogtag - he was frakking ME, don't you get it?" heh.
But it's certainly going to be very owie for us all.
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I didn't say so, I sorta implied, and I thought I had, but I never articulated it.
it's being with Sam post TAB, finally making a damn choice, that unleashes Kara's inner Leoben.
Since we have to marry canon in some fashion, this works, for me. Sigh. Poor Sam, and poor Kara. Lee, I can't feel sorry for, right now. He made his own damned bed of self-righteousness, he can lie in it.
It would be great if someone tries to get her mad about that and she can say, "He never took off my dogtag - he was frakking ME, don't you get it?" heh.
That would be an awesome scene. Sadly, only Kat or Tigh would pull that shit, and Tigh wouldn't see the point, I don't think.
Owie times a million, I suspect. :/
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I still haven't seen the whole thing, just the sex scene. (Love Allie's observation, yes, you can have sex in a rack even if you're both very energetic, and one of you is a giant. He!)
I love the married quarters thing. LOVE it. Kara was so frakked up when they got off NC, and Sam must have been at such a loss over what to do about it, especially after he'd spent four months so focused on finding her. I do have to wonder if Sam knew about the married quarters and that Lee was blocking that, because if so, I would think that he'd have some very serious issues with Lee.
q>Also, because once she resolves things with Lee and is resolving things with Sam, then (and only then) can she resolve things emotionally with the people who fucked her over worse: Leoben and her mother. So she starts to fall apart a little, and Sam's too burned so he's careful about pushing (and Lee's not careful enough).
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Yeah, all I've seen is the sex scene and argument.
OMG. I had to repeat that last bit, because it's kinda hot and adorable, all at once. And it is.
Sam was almost as frakked-up as she was, in his own way, though. I actually think the separation did them BOTH good, but once Kara was ok with him being around again, they should have been able to share a room.. sigh.
Dude, Sam's pissed enough at Lee as it is. Don't give him more reason. ;]
Although it would just be one more brick on the fire against Lee for Sam.
Stomped into the floor, pulverized and turned into paste for cake decoration. *cries*
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intimacy scares him and he feels guilty about not pushing to leave New Caprica hard enoughhe's a boy, Mom snickers and settles back to wait for him to be controlled by his penis again.Oh, wait, was there Anders/Kara and Lee meta? What? I think it's telling that the only person that I actually don't want to physically smack in that trio is Anders.
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I want to smack Sam, sometimes. But way less than I want to smack Kara. Or, really, way less than I want to smack Ron for pointlessly turning her into a Mercedes Lackey Mary Sue.