...

[lyssie]

Seriously, guys. I'm just so fucking sick of this shit.

If all you can do after watching any show is sit there and analyze how crap/awful/pointless the female characters are, I stop noticing your big words and just start hearing "blah, blah, I'm a closet misogynist, let me show you how with my big big words!" whether that is your aim or not.

Because, seriously? I see tons of these meta/essays for female character. (and how awful they are) and so few for male characters it's laughably obvious.

Especially not when those traits and things you comment on are things I see in tons of male characters, as well.

Comments

[sabaceanbabe.livejournal.com]

So is this in regard to BSG or Sarah Connor Chronicles?

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Surprisingly, Torchwood was the straw that broke the camel's back. Also. OK, so I find Cameron (sidenote: dear SF writers, I thought we had this conversation? NO MORE CAMERONS) flat, but I'd find Arnie flat, too (and did). And everyone loves Arnie (and Cameron hit the terminator with a truck. What's not to like there, eh?)

BAH.

[cujoy.livejournal.com]

Regarding BSG - I've been noticing an upsurge of Tory bashing of late. :(

"Tory's boring. I hope they just box her."

MEH!

[lizardbeth-j.livejournal.com]

oh man. Tory? I think most rational people realize that we just don't KNOW her very well. We either will or we won't find out more in S.4, but hating on Tory for being a secondary character is just... lame.

It's like the Blanders people before LDYB. Scorning his character for not being super-dimensional when he was in only two eps and not expected back was also lame. Why do people bother getting their panties in a twist over minor characters? Such a waste of energy and sucks the squee right out of fandom.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Kara/Anders shippers, iirc. Which is very sad.

For the same reason people waste time bashing main characters and writing reams of fic about how horrible they are.

They should, instead, be writing me porn.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

Man! I know she's a minor character and all but I've loved her ever since The Captain's Hand. All ruthless and competent and under-appreciated. Grrr.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

You have to give her high marks for not running like hell when she realized Roslin was still broken up over Billy and thinking of her as second-best, man.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Which is sad. The most boring "Been there, done that" Cylon of them all is Leoben. Sigh. Why didn't Cavil nail two wackos with one stone?

[cujoy.livejournal.com]

And yet nobody's out there demanding he be boxed in an off-hand manner. :shakes head:

And yet some people are apparently unwilling to even give Tory a chance to be developed as a character.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Well, most people haven't pointed that out, and female characters aren't as hot as males?

Sigh.

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

All I can say is: WORD.

"Hey people, this is why we can't have nice things."

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I honestly think that's true. I think a lot of showrunners/writers take their cues from a fandom. If the fandom runs the women into the ground, they see no reason in fleshing them out or giving them plots, and even less reason to create MORE women to come in.

The only exception I can think of is NCIS which went from two women to three, when one of them left.

[cujoy.livejournal.com]

Just look at the casts of Heroes, Lost and Supernatural. All boys. And if someone has to die, it's more likely to be a female then a male. It's very, very aggrevating.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I actually saw a fandom secret the other day, noting that the ratio of women dying in Lost is.... not good. And you'll note that when Supernatural brought in female characters, fandom hated them sight unseen and started campaigns to get them kicked off.

[cujoy.livejournal.com]

Yes. I know that about Supernatural fandom. That's one of the many reasons that I am a Supernatural fan, but will never be in that fandom. The howls of dismay at the announcement that these two female characters were coming aboard, sight unseen, was embarassing.

(The reason is Wincest. I don't ship brothers. Although, I do think that the gayish situations the brothers sometimes get into is funny.)

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

*sigh* That's a damn shame, right there. I want my women to kick ass and take names, kthnx.

This should not be a pony.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

No, it shouldn't. It really shouldn't.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

People have serious problems with the idea of an intelligent, strong, independent, etc. female character. There's a serious "I'm threatened" factor to it for both males and females-males for having their position threatened, females for seeing a woman where they want to be, or pointing out their own faults-and with women, there's another "threat" that the woman is around the male character they like, and either could or is romantically involved(I think a HUGE chunk of slash comes from this...by hooking the guy up with another guy, you're keeping him "free.")

I do admit to a serious kneejerk reaction, though, when the female character is presented as being interesting or strong or cool because they're abbrasive and/or aggressive (which I also usually have a problem with when it comes to male characters, though I realize I don't judge the quality wholly equally) or to being strong "like a man."

Out of curiosity, what female character got ripped into this time?

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I tend to find that men care far less for whether a woman is everyone's Ideal Strong Female, although Darth Marley on Skiffy's BSG board is probably a boy, and therefore, an exception.

Huh. I was going to say something possibly insightful about Kara Thrace being a polarizing character and Aeryn Sun being the only one I can think of who only gets bashed in tiny tiny corners of fandom, but my brain stopped to consider that it is still snowing out there and I got distracted.

I think it's less the keeping him 'free' and more a knee-jerk reaction (or maybe it is): we're conditioned from an early age to view all other women and girls as threats to our husbands and lovers and lives and everything else. Women are supposed to compete and be jealous and catty and gossip.

But we're not conditioned to dissect men in the same fashion. And I think that may be part of why the women get the automatic microscope, where the men don't.

Most recently, Gwen Cooper from Torchwood. Though Sam Carter is always a fandom favorite for target, and I'm still pissed at the Atlantis people for their treatment of Elizabeth Weir, which has more to do with the people writing the show than fandom, I know.

[thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com]

Anybody, anywhere bashes Aeryn? *is confused*

Women are supposed to compete and be jealous and catty and gossip.

But we're not conditioned to dissect men in the same fashion. And I think that may be part of why the women get the automatic microscope, where the men don't.

Even more than women-as-threat I think is the self-criticism angle. We are trained to put ourselves under the microscope. "Are we worthy? Of course not! So how could that slut be?!"

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

In all honesty, I've never seen Aeryn-bashing (as far as I know, but I don't pay a lot of attention to FS fandom as a whole). But I'm using the law of averages and figuring it HAS to be out there. Maybe?

The self-criticism thing is also a big big YES.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

I see tons of these meta/essays for female character. (and how awful they are) and so few for male characters it's laughably obvious.

*ahem* Ready: I. Hate Lee. He's the most unrealistic character ever! He's committed mutiny how many times and he's STILL serving in the military?? He should have been dishonorably discharged five times over by now! And he's such a SLUT! I bet he gave Dee and Kara all kinds of nasty diseases from all his hookers. Even his lice have herpes, I swear.And he takes so much focus away from ALL the other characters! BSG is supposed to be an ENSEMBLE show and instead we get Lee and his morality and his daddy issues ALL the time. It's so obvious it's because the writers are in love with Jamie Bamber, and they're letting him RUIN the show. Now I'm not bashing the actor, but I bet the rest of the cast HATES him for being such a diva. And it's so obvious he doesn't understand his own show because he keeps trying to tell us how great Lee is, which is such blatant self-promotion. I want Lee DEAD. I want to WATCH his slow, painful, onscreen death. OMG! Worst. Character. Ever.

-Did I miss anything?

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Yes. "Damn, Lee is still around, I hope that two-timing slut dies in a fire soon."

Otherwise, thumbs-up!

(now go cleanse your brain by writing me fic.)

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

I have ONE scene left to write. Only, it's a doozy.

I think I may have channelled some of my recent aggression into my writing. Ooops.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Eeeeeeeeeee!! =) =) =)

[thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com]

Okay, that actually sounds vaguely like my posts...

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

Really?

*goes to read your journal*

;)

[thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com]

I actually haven't posted much about BSG, being way behind, but whenever Lee comes up in discussion, I end up sounding roughly like that:

Well, he's the action!hero heir to privilege with daddy issues and man-angst, which on your average scifi show would make him the main character, so whenever he's central to an episode, I worry that the show will become Captain Apollo and the Vipers vs. the Sexy Robots of Doom.

[cujoy.livejournal.com]

You forgot:

"And in addition to all that... Lee is bland. And underdeveloped, and has NO CHEMISTRY with Kara or Dee. Plus, he's whiney, and therefore deserves to die a horrible, horrible death."

Otherwise, spot on, ;)

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

Oh right, how could I forget bland? Because bland things always send me into frothing rages, really!

[cujoy.livejournal.com]

LOL - Yes. Nothing sets me off on a rage so completely as something that's bland.