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Rambling on about Teyla.
Because I feel like it. And, at some point, I may go back and make this all be organized... This was in response to an email discussion on the Systerhood list. Contains spoilers for Atlantis season one, through 'Letters From Pegasus', and commentary by myself and poor Kate who was blindsided by me going all rambly.
Teyla is all about family. This is what finally hit me while watching this episode. She's about family, and making connections, and I think being stuck on Atlantis without her people has worn her down some. I get the impression Orin was basically a father figure to her, that his kids were like siblings, and it was unthinkable to her to even consider leaving them behind.
They're also using Teyla and Liz as counterpoints to the military -- during the earlier briefing, especially, when they were talking about using the kids' zpm from Lt. Elliot's planet.
A third thing was that, she wants John to be something he obviously isn't. She wasn't there to see him murder 65 Genii. She knows it happened, but I think she assumes he was... less cold about it. She expects him to think like her, in a way. This felt like a disillusionment to me. She's finally realizing he is *not* everything she thinks he is. And it's something she's going to have to come to terms with.
I'd love to know if any Teyla/Shep shippers are planning on dealing with the dichotomy. Teyla is family, John is the complete opposite.
I doubt it, though. Sadly. It's probably all fluffy bunnies and Aren't They Cute.
Actually, this episode simply made me respect Teyla more. She was *right* to try to save people. It was a little pointless, and just a little autocratic of her. But she was a leader among her people, and she's still adjusting.
Someone elsewhere mentioned the fact that she also isn't military, and therefore has no concept of chain of command, either. I think that's partially wrong, since she's been around long enough to get coc.
> And that, too. But somehow to me, Liz doesn't come off as holier-than-
> thou.
Huh. Oddly, she has, to me. I suppose this is one of the things that we'll end up just disagreeing on. I find Elizabeth to actually be a little grating, at times. Hrm.
>That whole argument between Teyla and John was annoying
> to me, because Teyla just comes off as thinking that she knows best
> and her will should always be bent to. I agreed with what she was
> trying to accomplish, I just hated the way she went about it.
Again. I think a *lot* of this was that she'd stuck Sheppard in this role, and he was *not* responding in a way that she'd thought he would. I don't think she *ever* thought he'd fight her on saving Orin and the others, and I think it disturbed her and irked her that she'd put him in this box, and he was suddenly not there but on the other side of the spectrum.
Part of this is that Teyla has been such a cipher for the writers that there's really no cohesive whole to her. She's like this, she's like that... If asked three weeks ago, I would have said that Teyla was a cold-blooded killer. Now? Now I'm not so sure about that. I don't think she has it in her to kill. She can fight, she can maim, and she can rend. But she doesn't like death.
Teyla has been written a bit inconsistently. She's a fighter, she's a killer, she's a leader, she's a follower, she's a giddy schoolgirl with a crush, she's elder sister to a silly group of boys...
She's a young woman who has stepped away from everything she knows, and sometimes flounders because she knows how to be a leader, but not how to apply a whole different code of living to what she does. I think she's stuck without connection in Atlantis, and it doesn't ever occur to her that this is true.
Her people left her behind, and I'm not sure how much respect she was garnering from them, in the end.
This is actually kind of amusing. I never thought I'd be rambling on about Teyla, I always thought it would be Lizzie I'd talk about. But everyone else talks about Lizzie, and Teyla is left to be either ignored or abused... Hrm.
> I wouldn't put it quite that way. I think that John just has a very
> different idea of family, though he probably wouldn't call it that.
> He was concerned with getting the information back to Atlantis and
> the rest of the expedition members -- home and family, in a way. We
> saw, when he was killing those 65 Genii, that he would do anything
> and everything to protect them.
Well, yes. He sees the big picture.
John sees things from a different perspective, he's from Earth, he's in the Air Force, he's obviously seen combat before. He's been a one-man killing machine.
I think a slight part of this is definitely that they're coming from two completely different cultures. Peacekeepers vs Earth, if you want a different comparison.
Teyla sees everything in the now. Planning for tomorrow can be done, but it's less important than enjoying your life and the gifts you're given, and the people you know and have connected with. Because tomorrow, the Wraith may come a-culling, and you're left with nothing but memories.
John is from Earth, and American, where if you don't like how things are going, you switch jobs or dump your girlfriend, or move to a new state/town/etc. There is no possibility of waking up dead (unless you're living in a ghetto, or a bad section of town, or dealing drugs, in which case, you're going to think more like Teyla anyway). Does John live in the now? Yup. But he knows how to take the long view (wow, I am NEVER going to graduate as a sociology major), and he's been trained by the Air Force to see the big picture and plan and strategize. You pare things down, don't take risks, and don't put anything ahead of the mission.
> She acted like he was cruel and unfeeling for wanting to leave, but he
> had reasons of his own for doing so -- his own people to think about.
Orin is Teyla's people. She sees no difference in saving him and his family and getting the information back to Atlantis (as a sidenote, I really don't think this information is worth shit, but then, they just wanted a dramatic episode and reason to get Teyla and Shep on a planet away from everyone else so there would be tension and angst). In fact, she probably sees saving them as something immediate, that can be done, and will accomplish something. They knew the Wraith were coming, confirming it was kind of pointless.
> I guess you could say I'm reading into the situation, but I think
> it's pretty clear that for Shepherd it isn't about a military
> objective, so much as keeping the people safe and getting them home -
This is probably true. I just wish we'd seen more of this. Hello, the episode where Kolya didn't die would have been a perfect opportunity to demonstrate the ruthlessness inherent in John Sheppard. He could have gunned down the stupid brotherhood sycophants and taken their zpm. Y'know, something Atlantis could actually use, instead of intel that is just going to cause more panic.
> > Someone elsewhere mentioned the fact that she also isn't military,
> > and therefore has no concept of chain of command, either. I think
> > that's partially wrong, since she's been around long enough to get
> > coc.
>
> Yes, and more than that, by saying she's a 'leader' among her people,
> that acknowledges at least some ad hoc form of command among the
> Athosians. It's kind of silly to think she wouldn't.
Actually, they seemed to be pretty easy-going and rather laid-back about it all. Kinda hippie communish, really.
Comparing that to a military chain of command... is kind of like apples and oranges.
I suspect the Athosians were all about "doing for the greater good", with the cullings, I'm betting the population rarely had to worry about troublemakers, because what would be the point in stealing, lying, cheating, if you could just get stuck out in the open the next time the Wraith come?
erm. Again, I think some of this is also cultural differences. The Athosians are *not* from Earth, they don't think like us. They may speak the same language, but in the thousands of years, meanings have changed. (I really should poke at Little Red about this. She was all over the cultural differences stuff)
Teyla is all about family. This is what finally hit me while watching this episode. She's about family, and making connections, and I think being stuck on Atlantis without her people has worn her down some. I get the impression Orin was basically a father figure to her, that his kids were like siblings, and it was unthinkable to her to even consider leaving them behind.
They're also using Teyla and Liz as counterpoints to the military -- during the earlier briefing, especially, when they were talking about using the kids' zpm from Lt. Elliot's planet.
A third thing was that, she wants John to be something he obviously isn't. She wasn't there to see him murder 65 Genii. She knows it happened, but I think she assumes he was... less cold about it. She expects him to think like her, in a way. This felt like a disillusionment to me. She's finally realizing he is *not* everything she thinks he is. And it's something she's going to have to come to terms with.
I'd love to know if any Teyla/Shep shippers are planning on dealing with the dichotomy. Teyla is family, John is the complete opposite.
I doubt it, though. Sadly. It's probably all fluffy bunnies and Aren't They Cute.
Actually, this episode simply made me respect Teyla more. She was *right* to try to save people. It was a little pointless, and just a little autocratic of her. But she was a leader among her people, and she's still adjusting.
Someone elsewhere mentioned the fact that she also isn't military, and therefore has no concept of chain of command, either. I think that's partially wrong, since she's been around long enough to get coc.
> And that, too. But somehow to me, Liz doesn't come off as holier-than-
> thou.
Huh. Oddly, she has, to me. I suppose this is one of the things that we'll end up just disagreeing on. I find Elizabeth to actually be a little grating, at times. Hrm.
>That whole argument between Teyla and John was annoying
> to me, because Teyla just comes off as thinking that she knows best
> and her will should always be bent to. I agreed with what she was
> trying to accomplish, I just hated the way she went about it.
Again. I think a *lot* of this was that she'd stuck Sheppard in this role, and he was *not* responding in a way that she'd thought he would. I don't think she *ever* thought he'd fight her on saving Orin and the others, and I think it disturbed her and irked her that she'd put him in this box, and he was suddenly not there but on the other side of the spectrum.
Part of this is that Teyla has been such a cipher for the writers that there's really no cohesive whole to her. She's like this, she's like that... If asked three weeks ago, I would have said that Teyla was a cold-blooded killer. Now? Now I'm not so sure about that. I don't think she has it in her to kill. She can fight, she can maim, and she can rend. But she doesn't like death.
Teyla has been written a bit inconsistently. She's a fighter, she's a killer, she's a leader, she's a follower, she's a giddy schoolgirl with a crush, she's elder sister to a silly group of boys...
She's a young woman who has stepped away from everything she knows, and sometimes flounders because she knows how to be a leader, but not how to apply a whole different code of living to what she does. I think she's stuck without connection in Atlantis, and it doesn't ever occur to her that this is true.
Her people left her behind, and I'm not sure how much respect she was garnering from them, in the end.
This is actually kind of amusing. I never thought I'd be rambling on about Teyla, I always thought it would be Lizzie I'd talk about. But everyone else talks about Lizzie, and Teyla is left to be either ignored or abused... Hrm.
> I wouldn't put it quite that way. I think that John just has a very
> different idea of family, though he probably wouldn't call it that.
> He was concerned with getting the information back to Atlantis and
> the rest of the expedition members -- home and family, in a way. We
> saw, when he was killing those 65 Genii, that he would do anything
> and everything to protect them.
Well, yes. He sees the big picture.
John sees things from a different perspective, he's from Earth, he's in the Air Force, he's obviously seen combat before. He's been a one-man killing machine.
I think a slight part of this is definitely that they're coming from two completely different cultures. Peacekeepers vs Earth, if you want a different comparison.
Teyla sees everything in the now. Planning for tomorrow can be done, but it's less important than enjoying your life and the gifts you're given, and the people you know and have connected with. Because tomorrow, the Wraith may come a-culling, and you're left with nothing but memories.
John is from Earth, and American, where if you don't like how things are going, you switch jobs or dump your girlfriend, or move to a new state/town/etc. There is no possibility of waking up dead (unless you're living in a ghetto, or a bad section of town, or dealing drugs, in which case, you're going to think more like Teyla anyway). Does John live in the now? Yup. But he knows how to take the long view (wow, I am NEVER going to graduate as a sociology major), and he's been trained by the Air Force to see the big picture and plan and strategize. You pare things down, don't take risks, and don't put anything ahead of the mission.
> She acted like he was cruel and unfeeling for wanting to leave, but he
> had reasons of his own for doing so -- his own people to think about.
Orin is Teyla's people. She sees no difference in saving him and his family and getting the information back to Atlantis (as a sidenote, I really don't think this information is worth shit, but then, they just wanted a dramatic episode and reason to get Teyla and Shep on a planet away from everyone else so there would be tension and angst). In fact, she probably sees saving them as something immediate, that can be done, and will accomplish something. They knew the Wraith were coming, confirming it was kind of pointless.
> I guess you could say I'm reading into the situation, but I think
> it's pretty clear that for Shepherd it isn't about a military
> objective, so much as keeping the people safe and getting them home -
This is probably true. I just wish we'd seen more of this. Hello, the episode where Kolya didn't die would have been a perfect opportunity to demonstrate the ruthlessness inherent in John Sheppard. He could have gunned down the stupid brotherhood sycophants and taken their zpm. Y'know, something Atlantis could actually use, instead of intel that is just going to cause more panic.
> > Someone elsewhere mentioned the fact that she also isn't military,
> > and therefore has no concept of chain of command, either. I think
> > that's partially wrong, since she's been around long enough to get
> > coc.
>
> Yes, and more than that, by saying she's a 'leader' among her people,
> that acknowledges at least some ad hoc form of command among the
> Athosians. It's kind of silly to think she wouldn't.
Actually, they seemed to be pretty easy-going and rather laid-back about it all. Kinda hippie communish, really.
Comparing that to a military chain of command... is kind of like apples and oranges.
I suspect the Athosians were all about "doing for the greater good", with the cullings, I'm betting the population rarely had to worry about troublemakers, because what would be the point in stealing, lying, cheating, if you could just get stuck out in the open the next time the Wraith come?
erm. Again, I think some of this is also cultural differences. The Athosians are *not* from Earth, they don't think like us. They may speak the same language, but in the thousands of years, meanings have changed. (I really should poke at Little Red about this. She was all over the cultural differences stuff)