...how is Sailor Moon on that chart if at least two of the first branches are "can she carry her own story" and "does she have flaws"? Are we talking about the same series? You know, the one called...Sailor Moon?
Clearly, I need more coffee to understand this chart.
If they were focusing on that, then wouldn't they, I don't know, do something like focus on the people writing shitty cliche parts instead of griping about the women characters and using insulting terms for them?
(Also, Lois from Family Guy is in no way a positive representation of feminism in any of the myriad episodes I've been stuck sitting through.)
Ugh, I was just reading this before coming here. Way to make a chart that does the exact opposite of what it thinks it's doing. And also ignores a lot of stereotypes that are common for non-white women, so it has special fail in another category too.
Here is how Jezebel framed it: http://jezebel.com/5661155/flowchart-know-your-stereotypical-female-characters They said that it was a "helpful chart" to teach writers to avoid stereotypes, and compared it to the Bechdel Test.
(I'm not saying I agree; I'm just showing how a feminist blog tried to frame it as a very feminist exercise.)
Yeah, that whole "helpful feminist exercise" thing has been pretty thoroughly debunked by a bunch of LJ/DWers, just like the whole "10 Most Disappointing Women In SciFi" ONTD post got debunked as a feminist exercise. :(
I saw that yesterday and wondered why some of my favorite characters were listed as stereotypes... also, I couldn't figure out where to put a couple that didn't meet the arbitrary "strong female character" designation but also didn't work with the different stereotypes.
(Not that this is entirely helpful, but I believe a male version of this chart would look similar, as far as having a lot of stereotypes/tropes and relatively few "SMCs"--which indicates to me that this chart fails to point out anything helpful about female characters.)
I try not to get ragey about much relating to fandom. (I find 'ship wars humorous, after all.) But THIS...THIS MAKES ME RAGEY!!! Way to fail, charting people. Way. To. FAIL!
So wait a minute, is the flowchart a good thing illustrating a bad thing, or a bad thing failing to adequately illustrate a bad thing? Because I...can't tell?
I hate this chart. I hate it with the passion of a thousand supernovas. It MAKES NO SENSE. It goes out of its way to delineate specific characters from specific shows/films as being stereotypes, for one thing, which is not how this shit works. The person who created this knows fuck all about the concept of what the fuck a flow chart looks like, for another. The entire premise of it appears to stem from an idea of "How can I pigeonhole a bunch of female characters into a bunch of tropes that make them all look shitty," thereby giving off the impression that no female characters ever should be at all emotionally involved with anyone else, be able to take care of themselves, or in fact even be there in the first place.
Okay, I only learned of this flow chart like 8 minutes ago, but the thing that bothers me most about it at this point is that it doesn't even follow its own so-called logic. If a character can allegedly avoid being shunted down into the body of the chart if she can carry her own story, then what the heck are most of those women doing on that chart?
Also, complex ideas do not fit on flowcharts, as this one makes painfully obvious -- it's such a complicated chart that it doesn't fit on my rather large monitor, and yet it has over simplified every tiny part of itself to the point of losing all meaning.
Misogyny aside, it's a bad chart. Now, back to payroll before I get too angered-up to do my job.
Ugh, whyyyy does that have to exist? And more importantly, why the hell would anyone bother to spend hours making it? "Female characters suck no matter what!" Blech. I want to make one of male characters like that. Except that I hate flow charts, and also don't really want to think about the majority of existing male characters for that long.
This chart is just another example of validating people's female character hate. If every single female character can be stuffed into one of 70(!) "categories" then who the hell is is left standing? That is an unbelievable standard to hold female characters to.
also, Sarah Connor's presence on this list - with the implication that she isn't a strong character who can carry her own story... utterly invalidates this list.
It's the latter, I think. I mean, to give them credit, the writing of women as one-dimensional, throw-away character stereotypes IS a bad thing. But when it looks like no woman, ever, can manage to jump through the hoops of their flowchart to manage to be a Strong Character, then it's a bit... not so great.
I'm having trouble reading the chart as my eyes and mental accuity are caca but that's some dumb shit right there. What stereotype did they shove on Kara? crazy chick?
I've read the article this chart comes from and I actually agree with it. The problem is that it contradicts this chart in it's definitions. I think the problem is not in the chart itself which I think is rather accurate representation of stereotypes used by entertainment industry. The problem is in the chosing characters who illustrate those streotypes.
In the article the author states she considers Sarah Connor, Ripley and many others as strong women characters. I dodn't know what prompted using them to illustrate the stereotypes to avoid. Maybe the fact that they also shared that trait and are well known. Still it was stupid (not to mention self-contridactory). One should never illustrate bad with good examples. Especially since it never illustrates the true strong women character. It validates all those who say there was never ever a good female character. And for me this is the worst crime of that chart.
Anyway as tvtropes tell us everything is some kind of trope. It's how you use them that makes the difference.
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Clearly, I need more coffee to understand this chart.
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(Also, Lois from Family Guy is in no way a positive representation of feminism in any of the myriad episodes I've been stuck sitting through.)
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http://jezebel.com/5661155/flowchart-know-your-stereotypical-female-characters
They said that it was a "helpful chart" to teach writers to avoid stereotypes, and compared it to the Bechdel Test.
(I'm not saying I agree; I'm just showing how a feminist blog tried to frame it as a very feminist exercise.)
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(Not that this is entirely helpful, but I believe a male version of this chart would look similar, as far as having a lot of stereotypes/tropes and relatively few "SMCs"--which indicates to me that this chart fails to point out anything helpful about female characters.)
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What the fuck.
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Also, complex ideas do not fit on flowcharts, as this one makes painfully obvious -- it's such a complicated chart that it doesn't fit on my rather large monitor, and yet it has over simplified every tiny part of itself to the point of losing all meaning.
Misogyny aside, it's a bad chart. Now, back to payroll before I get too angered-up to do my job.
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also, Sarah Connor's presence on this list - with the implication that she isn't a strong character who can carry her own story... utterly invalidates this list.
Not to mention Mystique, Uhura, Marge Simpson...
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In the article the author states she considers Sarah Connor, Ripley and many others as strong women characters. I dodn't know what prompted using them to illustrate the stereotypes to avoid. Maybe the fact that they also shared that trait and are well known. Still it was stupid (not to mention self-contridactory). One should never illustrate bad with good examples. Especially since it never illustrates the true strong women character. It validates all those who say there was never ever a good female character. And for me this is the worst crime of that chart.
Anyway as tvtropes tell us everything is some kind of trope. It's how you use them that makes the difference.